Menopause Matters Forum
Menopause Discussion => Other Health Discussion => Topic started by: HellsBells on March 25, 2024, 11:36:58 AM
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Hi all. I was wondering if anyone out there has had any success with improving or stabilising an osteoporosis diagnosis without conventional meds? I know it used to be that HRT was the first line of defence until the overstated risks of HRT were published. I may try HRT (again) but I was wondering if anyone had used anything less conventional which has helped? There are research papers on collagen supplements/turmeric/magnesium etc. but just thought I'd ask on this forum. If you don't want the bisphosphonates the NHS will cut you adrift, but the risks with those drugs are significant (spontaneous fractures and jaw necrosis) and mess with the natural clearing out of old bone. I have asked for the anabolic conventional drugs but was told they are 'too expensive'.
Slightly at a loss with this new challenge. Thanks for any words of wisdom!
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Hi , have osteopenia and was told to take calcium tablets but after much research, decided to stop them as the calcium can build anywhere in your body,not just your bones,so I now take full strength vit d with added vit K2, the latter apparently helps the calcium go to the bones. Sadly the NHS aren't great at looking at these things further,so I've literally no idea if mine has progressed or stayed the same
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I was told that I had signs of osteopenia and was prescribed VitD and calcium but after a while the calcium gave me bad reflux. I decided to stop the calcium and take VitD and Zinc, I also take other supplements. I couldn't take the VitK as it gave me an upset stomach but so far I am doing well.
I know its not quite answering your question but I also don't want to mess with drugs that could give me side affects because they always do, I am also not on HRT apart from topical.
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How about asking for a referral to a specialist, mayB an endocrinologist or to a dedicated menopause clinic. There is also a support group ...... off for a lookC
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Royal Osteoporosis Society:
Fact sheets, booklets and information films
We have lots of fact sheets and booklets available to download and print, covering everything from general bone health, to diagnosing osteoporosis and fragility fractures, to osteoporosis drug treatments and living with spinal fractures.
We also have a number of information films, which have been developed together with people who have experience of osteoporosis and fractures, and who understand what you might be going through – as well as our very popular series of exercise films.
You can find links to all of our downloadable fact sheets and booklets, and our information films.
There's also information for support group or event organisers who want to order publications, and for health professionals who want resources to share with patients.
Introductory booklets
Better bone health for everybody - including calcium and vitamin D
About osteoporosis and weaker bones - including drug treatments
Getting your bones checked to keep them healthy
Help for pain and other symptoms caused by spinal fractures
Subscribe to ROS News
Sign up to our newsletter for the latest updates from the ROS
Bone health
Better bone health for everybody
Food and nutrients
Calcium supplements and tests
Vitamin D supplements and tests
Further food facts and bones
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Hi HellsBells
I was diagnosed with Osteopenia 17 years ago and have had 5 yearly DEXA scans since which have been stable. I was prescribed calcium & Vit D3 but decided to just continue with D3 and researched getting the calcium through diet instead and also researched the other vitamins/foods needed to absorb calcium - magnesium, k2 etc. It's so long ago I've forgotten what foods I eat for which vitamin and they're just a part of my diet.
When I mentioned it to my GP 5 years ago he said they no longer recommended calcium supplementation anyway - though he didn't say what was recommended instead. (Just after that I asked a different GP for HRT and she said they didn't prescribe it for the reason of bone density - different now!) I'm probably going to try systemic HRT again after 2 unsuccessful attempts. I'll need the Mirena Coil as Utrogestan didn't control the bleeding.
After reading some research, in recent years I've had 5 prunes every morning - worth a google.
I've done the recommended weight bearing exercise too - brisk walking/bit of lifting. I have an aunt with Osteoporosis and she was given some of those tension straps to pull to strengthen the upper body.
I've got my next DEXA in 2 days but having had VA for the last 4+ years and not been able to do the brisk walking (and the lack of sleep from the burning) I'm a bit anxious if it's affected things - we'll see.
Ignorance over VA has a knock on effect!
Good luck with your research.
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& HellsBells
I'll check back on this thread - interested to see answers re your question on improvement/stabilisation.
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Wren that was fascinating reading and gave me a little hope,they told me I needed o further investigation which I can't understand as surely 5 yearly dexa scans are a good idea,very interesting re the calcium also,many thanks x
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Thanks Wren - great to hear you have managed to stabilise your numbers for so long. That's impressive! Can I ask how old you are? It didn't sound like you needed drastic measures to do so either. You have given me hope....
I have researched diet vitamins and minerals and have found the same as you - I take K2 & magnesium (SO important yet they do not mention!) and of course D3. I have started on a collagen supplement as there is some research (not much) that a 5g dose per day is optimal. I also take high dose vitamin C as it is so crucial for collagen production and deployment.
I have done the prunes research, which is essentially a boron issue and I have discovered that avocado, peaches and pears have a lot too. And good for me - peanut butter and coffee!
I have also had 2 HRT failures - can't tolerate the progesterone very well - lots of dizziness etc. If my next scan is bad I will have to try HRT again as the bisphosphonates are just not fit for purpose as they give more 'density' but often weaken the bones.
I also plan to get a REMS Echolight scan in addition to the DEXA - I'm sure you know that it indicates bone strength which DEXA does not. Low bone density does not equal weak bones. In fact more fractures happen to those with normal bone density.
I have also discovered that small/thin/light women routinely have lower bone density. Given that the DEXA is callibrated against the 'average' 30 year old weighing 10.5 stone it stands to reason that they are not comparing like for like. I was 7 stone until I was about 45.
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Blimey HellsBells,you too have given me a bit of hope,WHYYYYYY don't they tell us all this info,especially regarding the bone density,I was thinking my bones were ready to snap after my dexa.
I'm having a calcium and vit d blood test in 2 weeks,so will be interesting to see if I am actually deficient
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I would add weight training and exercise as crucial for increasing bone density - as well as D3/K2 that others have mentioned.
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I only decided to go on HRT because my then endocrinologist whom I went to see about extensive sweats at 45 said that all is an experiment but one thing for sure is that HRT protect against osteoporosis..
Imagine my shock when at 68, after DEXA scan due to back pain, that showed -1.8 osteopenia...
They don't f.. know anything!
..poison yourself if you wish!
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I think HRT is the first "go to" for Drs then calcium tablets but it seems they don't seem to know the down sides of them :(
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I take it, with vit D. What else?
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jaybo, I too thought my bones were ready to snap after my DEXA results.
After the 2019 DEXA, the GP just told me 'it's fine'. I interpreted that as me being stable. That result showed 'Treatment is advised'. I wonder why I didn't pursue that - presume I thought the diet and exercise I was already doing was 'Treatment'.
There's never been a discussion on the results since 2010. This thread and having this week's scan has made me look at previous results in detail.
Between 2007 and 2019 my T scores lessened by 0.4 for Femur and 0.2 for Spine (so not 'stable').
I went to GP at 43 as my periods stopped and she sent me for a baseline DEXA. I didn't get the results and thought nothing of it.
Two years later I slipped on ice, landed hard on one hand and broke my wrist and the consultant did a DEXA scan - shouldn't have broken a bone falling from my own height. That result showed both scans - both showed osteopenia. The recommendation was DEXA scans every 3/5 years so I always remind GP after 5 years one's due (and ensure I get results - lesson learnt). Recommendations then were - advice on diet, weight bearing exercise and lifestyle factors that enhance bone health, Calcium and Vitamin D. GP recommended a brisk walk every day.
I regret not going on HRT - this was in the 'scare' period I think.
Would I have known I had Osteopenia or be having 5 yearly scans if I hadn't broken a bone?
HellsBells - not as stable as I imagined! I've just turned 60 so the sooner I try HRT again the better.
This has been an interesting, and timely, thread for me though. It's made me re-assess things - already ordered some magnesium, will look at collagen too and read up on boron.
I agree Laszla, I'll look at more weight training. The physio said - bones like a good pounding.
I didn't know the effects of calcium supplements and bisphosphonates so that's interesting.
I noticed Amitriptyline also has bone loss as a side effect. Been prescribed this twice in the last 5 years. Once for tingling, headaches and it didn't work - I'm now sure this was menopause anxiety stuff. The other time it was prescribed by a dermatologist for a burning/sore vulva. Apparently it's 'good at breaking the link' between my brain telling my vulva it's burning (I know! familiar story, - this forum saved me...). That, together with not being able to do the exercise makes me anxious for the latest result.
I've never heard of REMS Echolight scans so that's interesting re bone density/bone strength/BMI.
I'm going to take a positive from your last para HellsBells.
I was 8.2 stone pre-meno. At yesterday's DEXA I had a quick glance at the scale - 62 kg (9.9 stone). Hopefully, meno weight gain and lack of brisk walking will work in my bone density favour.
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After my dexa scan all I was told was ....no further treatment but suggest calcium but like I said earlier,calcium can build up literally anywhere,kidneys,heart etc so I decided against them.
I was put on omeprazole lately and long term effects?? Causing decreased bone density,I just feel Drs don't check these things out and it seems we're left to do all the homework ourselves,I'm definitely going to chase for another dexa scan
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Orrla...-1.8 at 68 years old isn't too bad..HRT protects against further loss if it is mainly oestrogen. It is testosterone and progesterone which are the 'anabolic' hormones that stimulate osteoblasts (bone growers). Oestrogen regulates the osteoclasts that clear out the old rubbish bone. Sorry if I'm repeating myself. What was your Z score? That will tell you where you are on the scale compared to your peers and becomes more relevant the older you get.
I am part of a large FB group and many women have -3 to -4.5 at younger ages.
It's also worth pointing out that we are measured against (as mentioned) the 'average' 30 yr old - but no one has a baseline density test done at that age (unless a specific illness). None of us know what we had at 30, so if we are lighter, coeliac (undiagnosed) or have never done much exercise we are not being measured against our 30 yr old selves.
It is also worth looking at the FRAX tool - you can put in your own numbers and see what % risk you have of a fracture. It is used by the doctors to decide on treatment initiation or not.
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I can't quite remember my scores but they were in the -1. Numbers
Thank you for all the information x
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Really interesting thread. I was diagnosed with osteopenia at age 42 hip -2.3, spine -1.8. I have been on hrt for 2 years and was recently rescanned and guess what no change whatsoever. I have also been strength training for the last year which I hoped would help.
I wonder whether it is largely down to my small frame. My wrists are 13cm and my waist is 24".
The gp does not seem bothered in the slightest although I have pushed to finally be referred to the bone clinic. I do not hold much hope for anything helpful though, probably will just be told about calcium and vit d again.
I did read dome research on the importance of testosterone for bone so managed to get some privately. I have only just started on this and hoping it makes a difference.
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HellsBells, I know -1.8 is not too bad but why it's there at all if I am on HRT since I was 45? I also take Testosterone, for ca 10 years now..
...and am experiencing all sort of issues with my health right now, not all clear yet as there is that endless wait, wait, wait now while all goes from bad to worst.. now extra problem from Estring not available.. 🙄
🤗
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@orrla Do you know what is was when you started hrt at 45? If it was like mine at age 42 (-2.3), -1.8 would be an improvement.
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From the research, if we do nothing, bone loss will occour steadily as we age. If anyone has the same numbers that is a big win. It takes something quite drastic to reverse the numbers, although it can be done. HRT + a hefty weight training regime for example.
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I am quite happy to watch any1 doing hefty weight training ;)
Brisk walking. 10 mins daily. I believe that with Education Authorities selling off sports fields for housing was a downward slope for many children: lack of avilableility for sports/play time which must surely have an impact :-\
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@orrla Do you know what is was when you started hrt at 45? If it was like mine at age 42 (-2.3), -1.8 would be an improvement.
No, and I will never know, but had no issues than, now I have many, including Scoliosis.
How come you had it checked at 42?
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I insisted it was checked due to early menopause. I now get it checked privately.
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https://youtu.be/hzLGUM1hpUA?si=uDbYLx6o7qdCbQDR
Very informative
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Tulip256, how?
Are you saying that you get DXA scan privately..?
?
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I just had my blood test results back today,ferratin,B12,calcium & Vit D all normal :D
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I love people watching and have noted that many ladies of a 'certain' age seem to bend forwards. When seeing my reflection in shop windows for example, I note it in myself. Yesterday I followed 3 women, obviously friends, who all stooped 4wards :-\
Please ladies, do check your footwear as well as how your spinal position might be when up and about. My Deportment teacher {there's posh } told us to feel that the top of the head was reaching for the clouds ...... Note to Self! I also need to get DH to push me more upright ;)