Menopause Matters Forum
Menopause Discussion => Other Health Discussion => Topic started by: CLKD on October 05, 2018, 03:44:39 PM
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Did anyone watch last night? Interesting ...........
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I caught it on iplayer after. Very interesting. Shows some pain can be reversed by the power of suggestion and the brain. I've been told the brain is the monster when it comes to pain by a pain consultant.
Gangan
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We watched it. My husband said that the placebo would probably have worked for me but once I knew then I wouldn't be happy so then it wouldn't work anymore. I must admit that I think I would find it difficult once I knew the tablets were not a real medicine. Do you think they were going to keep supplying them? If not then what would they do
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Did anyone watch last night? Interesting ...........
Yes I did. Already knew a bit from doing psychology a few years ago. Thought though that the effect would weaken once they knew that it was a placebo.
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We watched it. My husband said that the placebo would probably have worked for me but once I knew then I wouldn't be happy so then it wouldn't work anymore. I must admit that I think I would find it difficult once I knew the tablets were not a real medicine. Do you think they were going to keep supplying them? If not then what would they do
Yes I wondered about future supply.
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Maybe knowing that you don't need anything for the pain gives you the confidence that you don't need anything for the pain if you follow my meaning. Then remove the crutch (pills). There has been another programme where a doctor has got people off pain relief and into doing other things. I think when you are first in pain you go to the doc and expect a fix like with anything else and they will try what they have in their tool box for you. It's when the pain doesn't go away (chronic) that trying to think outside the box and away from medication may help.
It was lovely to see the young mum in the programme regain her life with her children. Would she have thought of it on her own though ? as she had gone through a raft of pain relief and consequent side effects. Would her doctor have suggested that she try taking nothing and just believe that she would improve ?
Gangan
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Welcome Gangan.
I wondered about the young mum, in fact about all of them. We get to the point where we need pain relief when symptoms are acute.
But we are rarely told coping mehanicisms: i.e. proper footwear >:( [I could write a book], I often want to stop women who are slopping around but may well have back problems due to what they have on their feet!: how to bend correctly - my sciatica starts when I don't kneel to load the laundry machines, I pop something into the dishwasher and think 'that will be OK' ....... after a few days the nerve begins to nip. Some find ironing sitting down eases symptoms, me I don't know where our board is ;). It is about being back aware in many cases. Lifting children, pets, moving furniture - all a daily routine but can impact.
If there is pain elsewhere then the body will compensate which may increase strain on the back. I do hope that they will continue to be given something to boost confidence that they no longer require prescribed medications. I vaguely remember that programme Gangan, was it one of the GPs who is a twin?
However: I have taken anti-depressant mediation since the 1980s and would never dare to stop. :-\. If power of the brain helped my depression and anxiety I would jump at the chance but from experience I know that I need medication.
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Paracetamol is known to have little effect on pain and is dished out to keep patients happy.
When I get one of my headaches I'm afraid none of the normal painkillers truly work. DG x
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CKLD I think it is this programme i was thinking of
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-40050863
and one done by the doctor who is a twin
https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b07wwd9d
both spending more time with a patient.
Gangan
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Paracetamol is known to have little effect on pain and is dished out to keep patients happy.
When I get one of my headaches I'm afraid none of the normal painkillers truly work. DG x
I don't agree with that. It doesn't work for tension headaches/inflammation but it does a pretty good job for me if I have flu or general aches/pains. I don't think it is just a placebo. I much prefer it to codeine based painkillers which I took once and which made me fee sick and dizzy.
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I think that many people don't take the correct medication for the condition they are suffering with, i.e. some are for pain relief and to reduce temperatures, others are specifically for aches and pains. When I was young it was Junior Asperin and even that Mum cut I half ::)
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There is also a difference between Acute and Chronic pain you enter the latter category after 3 months or so of pain.
Should you pass through the doors of a pain clinic they will try different medications on you and monitor your pain levels. Consultants there don't want you taking the incorrect medication or too much of it or anything that is ineffective. That is not to say they have the answer for everything.
The clinics can offer acupuncture but not much else alternative as far as i can make out. Maybe they ought to hand out placebos and send a patient away i don't know of that happening. Maybe that would be considered wrong under NHS guidelines but okay for a trial.
Gangan
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A GP cannot hand out placeboes without telling the patient. I don't know many that would even consider doing so because people are, in general, wanting a quick fix. They have trouble enough explaining that less and less antibiotics are to be prescribed.
I'm a cynic through and through ;D
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A GP cannot hand out placeboes without telling the patient. I don't know many that would even consider doing so because people are, in general, wanting a quick fix. They have trouble enough explaining that less and less antibiotics are to be prescribed.
I'm a cynic through and through ;D
I know that they can't but personally I wouldn't object to trying one for a limited period (not knowing that it was a placebo). In the experiment featured on TV, I wonder which factors led to the placebo working for that group and not for the others? Were they more cynical?
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It was the expected % I believe of people who will get relief of symptoms by thinking it might be an active ingredient. Whereas Moi :D ::). The body will heal itself to a certain degree but I like to give mine a helping hand or several. If I get a headache and don't take at least 1 Nurofen capsule I become nauseated. Because I know that the capsule will work and if after an hour symptoms persist I take the 2nd one, I am less stressed. Same with sciatica which I know is usually self inflicted :( :D. Note to self ::)
I think that tension can exacerbate symptoms. It has been proven that patients on a morphine drip in Hospital use less than those patients who have to wait for the medicine trolley because the latter arrives at specific times of the day. Patients that can opt for a drip trigger don't have to worry about not getting pain relief when required. [if that makes sense :-\]. Some medics are really engrained on keeping to the 4 or 6 hour gaps between pain relief :-\ which causes stress and upset.
Maybe when people have tried everything that the NHS can offer or Over the Counter remedies, a 'new' drug is worth taking a chance on - they all knew that some would get a placebo ......... a double trial experiment would be interesting on the back of this. Trouble is, if I continued with pain I would reach for my usual medication ::)
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It was the expected % I believe of people who will get relief of symptoms by thinking it might be an active ingredient. Whereas Moi :D ::). The body will heal itself to a certain degree but I like to give mine a helping hand or several. If I get a headache and don't take at least 1 Nurofen capsule I become nauseated. Because I know that the capsule will work and if after an hour symptoms persist I take the 2nd one, I am less stressed. Same with sciatica which I know is usually self inflicted :( :D. Note to self ::)
I think that tension can exacerbate symptoms. It has been proven that patients on a morphine drip in Hospital use less than those patients who have to wait for the medicine trolley because the latter arrives at specific times of the day. Patients that can opt for a drip trigger don't have to worry about not getting pain relief when required. [if that makes sense :-\]. Some medics are really engrained on keeping to the 4 or 6 hour gaps between pain relief :-\ which causes stress and upset.
Maybe when people have tried everything that the NHS can offer or Over the Counter remedies, a 'new' drug is worth taking a chance on - they all knew that some would get a placebo ......... a double trial experiment would be interesting on the back of this. Trouble is, if I continued with pain I would reach for my usual medication ::)
In the study featured in the programme, they all got a placebo. They thought that some would and some wouldn't. Yes I have read about the pain control study before. Patients then feel that they have some control over the situation so take less of the morphine. in the version I read, it wasn't a continuous drip but the patients could press a button to release more.
Quite a few years ago (1987) I helped at a summer camp for kids with learning disabilities in France. I remember one boy saying that he had toothache. The staff member on duty offered him a soluble aspirin which he drank. After the child had left us, the staff member told me that it was actually just a bit of sugar powder in water. Later we saw the child again and his toothache was better! That is probably when I first came across the placebo factor.
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Yep they all had the placebo which wasn't revealed until later. Cynic me, if I even thought it wasn't real ;D
Nowt wrong with sugared water either. Mum used to have a tin of sweeties we were never taken to a hospital. It was Dettol, a hug and a sweetie ;-)
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Trouble is children can tell you allsorts Katejo ! He may not have had a toothache in the first place.
Stress and pain are linked which can be noticed when you have chronic pain. More stress more pain. Comes from the same area in the brain.
It you continued with pain CKLD there maybe no point in reaching for your usual medication as you could need something else or a placebo ;)
Gangan
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Nope. My regime works for me. 1 Nurofen initially followed by the 2nd if necessary. If pain is really bad then 2 initially followed by 1 75 mins. later. No problems apart from when I had trigenimal neuralgia :'(