Menopause Matters Forum
Menopause Discussion => All things menopause => Topic started by: racjen on January 15, 2019, 01:31:50 PM
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I am desperate - I have such severe anxiety and depression, brought about by sudden chemotherapy menopause, my life has completely fallen apart, lost my job, regularly think about suicide... So far no-one has come up with a solution - raising my estrogen level has helped up to a point with the depression, but the acute anxiety, which was triggered by utrogestan, now doggedly refuses to respond to anything. I also need testosterone but my body refuses to tolerate it - seems to make the depression worse. I fought to get a referral to my nearest NHS menopause clinic, 3 hours drive away, went fully armed with all the facts about what I'd tried already and what my blood levels are right now, and came away feeling that it was all total guesswork, the consultant even tried to make out that I didn't need testosterone because my ovaries would still be producing it. This is both theoretical nonsense and wrong in my case - he looked a bit sheepish when I showed him the level had come back as practically zero. And surprise surprise, after 3 months his guesswork has resulted in absolutely no improvement whatsoever.
The problem for me is that having menopause brought on suddenly by chemotherapy seems to be a pretty unusual situation, and no-one really seems to have a clue how to deal with it. I have savings I'm prepared to spend to get some semblance of a life back, but is there even a professional out there who'd be able to help if I could manage to make the journey? (I live in Devon so pretty much anywhere feels like a long way). I want to at least be able to have a preliminary conversation with a doctor before I make what would be a hugely stressful and expensive trip for me, and no-one seems to offer that facility. Can anyone help with suggestions?
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What about emailing Dr Currie? I've read on here a number of times that some members email her for a personalised response for a nominal fee.
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Well, I did email her back when I had the problem with testosterone and she didn't have a clue and couldn't advise me if there was anyone else who might, but I guess it might be worth a try again.
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Hi,
have you tried Louise Newson in Stratford?
https://www.menopausedoctor.co.uk/
Have you read Gypsyrose lee's posts on here?
I hope you find an answer
Peppermintyx
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I would suggest you ring Dr Newson's clinic and ask for a telephone pre-appointment because you live so far away, are really unwell and your case is so specific. You want to know if she thinks she can help before you make the trek. I don't see why you can't have a telephone appointment to talk to her like that if you are willing to pay for it.
The clinic is great. Very helpful. So ring and talk to them and see what they say. Louise knows a lot of people, if she can't help she might have suggestions as to who might be able to help.
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Also go back to the Consultant and discuss how you are feeling. I believe that Consultants should be aware of how surgical intervention can impact on patients!!
:bighug:
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How long have you been suffering my lovely ((hugs))
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I will go back to the Consultant, but I'm currently waiting for a follow-up appointment and not holding my breath. Been suffering from gradually worsening depression for nearly two years, and acute anxiety for over a year. Was diagnosed with breast cancer in May 2016 so my life has been in total turmoil for getting on for 3 years now. Sounds like Louise Newson may be the best one to try, and at least she's not in London, which I really don't think I could cope with right now.
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racjen, firstly, I'm really sorry you are going through this hell. I agree with the others who have suggested Dr Louise Newson but I wonder if it would be worth considering an endocrinologist?
Perhaps having a sudden menopause puts you into a different category and you need very specialist help. I think it is safe to assume that nearly all your hormones are as a result of the HRT you are taking and that you are not producing your own now. Therefore, a comprehensive hormone blood test would be useful so that you know exactly what you are dealing with. Make sure you have these on the NHS before any consultation with a specialist.
I also wonder if you need a steady dose of progesterone and by that I don't mean synthetic progesterone but body identical progesterone. I have recently started a new HRT regime and take 50mg body identical progesterone every day and feel much better for it. I always felt good on the oestrogen only part of HRT but I did used to deteriorate towards the end of the cycle. I thought I was the most progesterone intolerant person on earth but I was wrong, I just can't tolerate the synthetics or Utrogestan. I always wondered why I didn't have any history of progesterone intolerance pre-menopause (I didn't have any problem with my own) but now I know, it was the wrong type at the wrong dose.
I got to the stage where I couldn't take Utrogestan anymore full stop. I hit a brick wall. Like you, I need high levels of oestrogen to feel good but I still have a womb and need progesterone but (up until now) it gave me migraines. I sought the advice of a specialist who concluded that my problem was hormonal instability and oestrogen spikes which were made worse by cyclical progesterone (Utrogestan) and recommended a continuous combined regime. This progesterone works positively and not just for womb protection, it acts like a kind of hormonal stabiliser and stops the oestrogen from spiking - well it does in my case at least. It also has a very calming effect and the added bonus of no periods. Of course I was nervous about starting this new regime but the specialist assured me it was nothing like Utrogestan - due to the way it is absorbed apparently - and it is not. I don't know how well you tolerated progesterone pre-menopause and much would depend on that. I don't think my new regime would be suitable for anyone with a history of PMS.
I think you need a complete rethink on your regime but as you say, it would be a good idea to sound out the specialist before parting with any money. You need to look at all options including an oestrogen implant. You also need to know what your problem is i.e. is it hormone instability, zero testosterone or the wrong dose/delivery method? It might take some time to finally get there but it will be worth it in the end.
If you would like any more information, please send me a PM. For reasons I am not going to go into, I no longer mention any practitioner I consult by name in my posts on here.
I hope that helps.
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I will go back to the Consultant, but I'm currently waiting for a follow-up appointment and not holding my breath. Been suffering from gradually worsening depression for nearly two years, and acute anxiety for over a year. Was diagnosed with breast cancer in May 2016 so my life has been in total turmoil for getting on for 3 years now. Sounds like Louise Newson may be the best one to try, and at least she's not in London, which I really don't think I could cope with right now.
I'm sorry to hear that but anxiety following that diagnosis isn't a surprise to me. My first panic attack happened about 3 months post a skin cancer diagnosis, even though they got it.
I've suffered on and off for ten years now, with long periods of none.
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Hi MaryG
I was fascinated to read your post and so pleased you have found a good solution at last. Isn't it bizarre how different our bodies are? I always suffered dreadfully with PMS and then PND, so I learned I couldn't tolerate my own progesterone. Then the synthetic progesterone in oral HRT made me feel suicidal. Yet, bizarrely 100mg of Utrogestan a day X 7 doesn't affect me at all.
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*racjen* our stories are so very similar. The physical aspects of the peri menopause were minimal for me. It was the sudden onset of crippling anxiety + very low mood which broke me. I don't have the words to fully explain how dreadful I felt, and yes I thought about suicide a lot.
Like you I tried a menopause clinic but it was a waste a time. One doctor there was skeptical I could even be peri menopausal because I was 'only' 44!
I finally ended up at Prof Studd's front door. He told me he saw women like me every day. Women who were desperate, feeling hopeless and in despair. He started me on 4 pumps of Oestrogel daily + blob of Testogel daily + 100mg of Utrogestan X 7 days a month.
Added to the above I was already taking 100mg of Sertraline a day, which my GP had persuaded me to start taking just a few days before my appointment with Studd.
Very quickly I felt something shift inside my head, like a tiny lightbulb being switched on. Then followed months of enjoying a few days of feeling back to normal followed by a run of bad days. But the bad days were never so bad as before I saw Prof Studd. Slowly I started getting more and more good days, but I must stress it took a long time and it often felt like 2 steps forward and 3 steps back. But I took hope from the fact that I COULD feel normal and back to being 'me', because there had been so many days and weeks when I had no hope and thought 'I' was lost forever.
Well, that was over 2.5 years ago, and last year I only had a handful of 'bad' days, interestingly always around the 25th of the month, which was when my period always used to start back before the peri menopause and HRT. But although the bad days are unpleasant, they are bearable. Before I saw Studd they had become unbearable and suicide was always just in the next room.
Please try and take some hope from my story. I promise you I know exactly how you feel and what you're going through. Keep posting, don't give up, and if you can try and see Prof Studd.
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Hi Racjen,
GRL gives very good advice. Perhaps you can try professor Studd? There is hope out there.
Peppermintyx
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What a thoughtful and positive post GRL with some really good advice.
I hope you get the help you need and deserve soon racjen.
Rosie63 xx
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Thankyou for your post GRL - I've read your story before and I'm really glad you found someone who could help. The problem for me is that I'm pretty much already on what Dr. Studd suggests - the same level of estrogen (albeit patches not gel, but I know from blood tests that I am absorbing and now have a pretty high level, 991 pmol at the last test). 7 - 10 days of Utrogestan a month which is quite a struggle towards the end, and I've tried testosterone three times, it has this strange effect of making me depressed which seems to be really unusual. From what I've read about Dr. Studd in other posts this is his standard treatment for everyone, so I don't feel very hopeful that he'd be able to come up with anything else. I think there's something else going on for me which may be to do with high SHBG, so my body is unable to use even very high levels of estrogen and testosterone in the way that it should.
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Try not to dismiss Prof Studd though. If one doesn't ask one doesn't get ;-). "I wonder if you have any success with X, Y, Z as I have ... " might be the way to begin.
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Well yes, but the problem is that many of these private specialists don't respond to specific enquiries about whether they can help, unless you shell out and go and see them. There's no way I'm making the trip all the way from Devon to London and paying several hundred pounds just to be given useless information. I phoned Louise Newson's clinic and they said that although they don't do phone consultations unless it's a follow-up, I could email them with details of the problem and they'd try to give some indication of whether they felt they could help. When I tried emailing Dr. Studd's clinic a while back with similar I got no response whatsoever....
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Racjen. IHave you considered CBT.
I have spoken on here about my psychological issues since surgical meno a few months ago.
I'm only just starting my hrt journey so I am sure others can offer far more experience and advice than me on that subject.
by far the most devastating thing for me has been the depression and anxiety so my heart goes out to you.
I'm on the list for CBT. You may already know this but you can self refer as I did to your local MH brief intervention team. If you would like to know more about that I'd be happy to share with you.
I hope you have success in finding the right hrt doc for you. Surgical and chemical meno can certainly raise different issues and I myself have found it hard to get the right advice and treatment. Thank goodness for this forum. You are not alone Racjen. Xx
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Hi Racjen,
following on from TC's support, this may be of use. It has lots of good advice and is used on many anxiety courses. There may be some advice in there that could be useful? Anxiety whatever the cause is awful to live with. You can buy them second hand on amazon.
Overcoming Worry and Generalised Anxiety Disorder, 2nd Edition
by Mark Freeston
Peppermintyx
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Physicality makes my anxiety much worse :'(. CBT did nowt .........
Devon is a long way from anywhere anyway ::) so wise not to travel, to be disappointed.
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Many thanks tc and pepperminty but yes, I have tried CBT and all sorts of other psychological therapies, to no avail. This is a physical problem and requires a physical solution; CBT may be helpful in developing coping strategies, but I'm looking for whatever it is that causes me to feel intense physical anxiety for several hours every single morning. It's a very specific feeling which I never had before menopause, and I know (as do many other women on here) that it's hormonal.
I've just emailed Louise Newson to ask if she can help, also phoned Dr. Studd's office and a consultant is going to phone me back on Fri to discuss. Will let you know how I get on.
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Have a short resume of your symptoms to hand. Write down any suggestions too!
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Hi racjen,
Great you have taken control and made a step towards a solution I hope.
Pepperminyx
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I agree with it being physical.i have suffered in the past but after surgery it was immediate it was every day particukarly on waking and it was the worse it's ever been in my life i had to phone the crisis line. My psychiatrist believes it is physical too. And yes. Same as you. All the coping tools I have learned went out the window.
So please please don't get me wrong I know it's physical cause which needs sorting I was just worried you might not have support when symptoms are at their worse. Whilst you are trying to sort the hrtl out.
I'm not sorted yet hrt wise but I did already have some support in place b4 op with a bereavement counsellor and she has been a listening ear. Also being able to get in touch with the crisis team has literally meant I'm still here today to tell the tale.
Hope you have some support whilst you are going through this hormonal hell xxxzz
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I am so pleased to read that you have taken a step forward and contacted Prof Studd. Please bear in mind if it's him who actually phones you he is quite abrupt and doesn't do chit chat. But he seriously understands what you're going through and he is consider one of the world's leading experts.
I also totally agree that this is 100% physical for us. As I turned 43 something changed chemically in my body and brain at exactly the same time my periods suddenly got weirdly light & only 3 days long. I actually have a bit of a background in psychology and I understand the techniques involved in disciplines such as CBT. It did nothing. CBT isn't going to alleviate the symptoms of something like diabetes or CF. Neither can it alleviate the symptoms of huge hormonal imbalance.
Please keep us updated with how you get on on Friday. One last thing, are you already taking ADs? I take both Sertraline + my HRT regime. I don't know if I still need the Sertraline or even such a high dose of oestrogen, but I am very wary of changing anything because I feel so well.
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GRL - stick with what suits you right now ;). You have your Life back again so don't try to fix what don't need fixing.
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Very wise words CLKD x
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:thankyou: I was told many years ago [1998] that I have to take anti-depressant medication for Life. OH I hated that but when I released the DH and I have a Life again :). Now I don't think about regularly swallowing medication which is what my brain requires. I never want to feel THAT ill again .....
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GRL, I can't take ADs - I react very badly to them, have tried 8 or 9 different types (including sertraline), they all make me suicidal. And Tc, this has been going on for so long and so badly that I'm very familiar with the Crisis Team; have had quite a few visits and phone calls over the last year and a half. I'm now supposedly under the care of the Community Mental Health Team, but it's taken months to even get an initial assessment with them and will take months longer to get any kind of constructive help. The Samaritans have probably been more help than anyone else....
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Racjen. It just happened that I was already under them due to having breakdown after my wife died. They were about to sign me off before all this happened. As you say it wouldvr taken weeks possibly months to even get assessed again as it has before and yes I've been told it will be months for therapy. I am also under the mht and the psychiatrist and see him every 6 weeks. I totally get what you're saying bout AD'S. He wanted to restart me on prozac but I couldn't and wouldn't risk the first 2 weeks suicide risk.
He's suggested WELLBUTRIN but I'm still scared of it.
The Samaritans have been my go to if I'm honest. One lady sat on the phone for 3 hours. The crisis team just don't seem to have the resources.although they did help me recently
I hope when you get your hormones sorted you will start to find some peace of mind. After all that's all we want and it's not asking for the moon, although it sometimes feels like it.
I apologise if It came across I was trying to tell you something you already know. I just wanted to share in the hope it might help.
Best wishes to you.
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I am not sure that I can add anything that will help other than you all know I have been where each if you are in terms of symptoms and problems other than my menopause being surgically induced. I got rid of my AD's after over 30 years and will never take them again despite the fact that like CKLD I was told I would need them for life. I have been under the mental health team and done CBT 4 times over the years. I have had one to one counselling for 8 weeks at a time - 4 times over 30 years, phoned the Samaritans and Lifeline on numerous occasions. The only thing I can say is that fixing my hormones has taken coming up 3 years! since I worked out that had been the problem since I was 13. After all the years and all the problems it has not been a quick fix to sort out and in fact 10 years ago when I was just into peri I was convinced that was my life from then on and that there was no solution (other than death which was a serious consideration, I had my letter to my family on my computer where it remained until Sept 18), but I didn't know it was hormonal then. I still wouldn't put myself in a category which says I am sorted and settled, just that I can go more than 3 days without my head crashing and the crash is less than before, plus nearly all my meno symptoms have gone. but I now don't get so far down I can't get out.
As GypseyRoseLee and MaryG testify there is hope but it can be a beyond long haul racjen and it can take many turns. Actually it was the ladies here who stopped me being the inpatient person that I am, because the frustration of not being able to find an answer was making me worse. After 40 years I wanted it fixed and I wanted it fixed now! but it has taken 6 whole months to get to 3 ok days so all I'm saying is that the results of something can take a very long time depending on how complicated the case. I have not been to see him but I did phone Professor Studds clinic about an appointment in August last year because as far as I am aware he is the leading person regarding hormonal depression and I live in Northern Ireland! I didn't go because I went to my local meno clinic and discussed his regime (and others from what I had learnt here) with the consultant there and got their opinions. Luckily they were ok with it but I was fully prepared to go.
I just want you to know there is hope - you just have to try everything you can find but you must do each tweak over a period of 3 months before changing. Patience and hope thanks to the ladies here - not least MaryG who PMd me and GypsyRoseLees posts because they had similar experiences to mine oh and many others CKLD Hurdity and names too numerous to mention. :thankyou:
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Lady. It's so reassuring to hear you say you don't get so far down you can't get out.and that there is hope.
After many many years i was diagnosed with EUPD emotionally unstable personality disorder. .something I only found out when I saw my notes
There have been times when i have been relatively well and functioned well but other times my life has fallen apart. It seems traumatic situations seem to lead to breakdown and recurrences of an eating disorder I've had since a teenager and OCD. They are linked to the EUPD. My doc lists clinical depression and chronic anxiety as seperate but I think it's all linked.
I even ended up in an eating disorder clinic at the age of 45. I was the oldest one there but it now makes me wonder if the age was significant and how much hormones might have been at play all my life without me realising it.
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I was saying on another thread how the frustration and impatience of hrt balance taking time had made me feel even worse i dont cope well with change and uncertainty so it's so very important to hear from ladies like yourself.
I know your reply wasn't for me but I hope you don't mind I just wanted to say thanks. I've been on here a few months but have kind of slowly revealed my Mh background as I guess we learn to do for fear of being labelled I never ever tell anyone new about the EUPD. Even most of my friends don't know. So thank you for being so honest.
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Group :hug:
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Thanks for your kind words Tc - I have found that there is no problem sharing anything on the forum however bizarre or weird it sounds when you right it down because no one judges. It think it is because we are either all suffering so badly with our own trials and tribulations and backgrounds and circumstances that we ourselves are not in any position to judge anyone else! So don't ever worry about what you need to say. Plus I think it's easier to tell people stuff in writing because they can't see your face! The forum is the one place in my life I have told the pure unadulterated truth about how I see my life and how I feel. Lots of the ladies here know more about me than most of the limited amount of people in my life. Post away Tc - it's cathartic and helpful instead of keeping it bottled.
Personally in hindsight I agree with you about the emergence and diagnosis of mental health conditions and other weird stuff for women at the age of around 40 plus, that I think the first line to be checked with GP's is to rule out hormonal issues before going on to anything else. You could be right about your timings for stuff in your life being hormonal. When I was 28/30/35 (around 1990) I kept telling my doctors I thought there was something wrong with "in balance in my body somewhere" causing my "issues" which could best be diagnosed in todays parlance as Chronic fatigue/ME and or fibromyalgia plus permanent chronic depression and anxiety and they treated me like I was an idiot. I also put forward theories which no 20 plus years later that I thought overuse of antibiotics as a child for 10 years had caused some in balance (it is now proven that they affect gut health which can affect mental health!) but of course no - I was an idiot AGAIN! To be honest I was actually way ahead of my time!! lol. but it didn't help me because I spent the best part of 40 years with no life at all and no enjoyment from life and struggling to control my mind every day which was in fact being controlled by my body not working properly. No amount of CBT or mental health stuff or AD's have every shifted it. It started shift very recently which just proves hormonal depression is a real thing! Dont worry about this label EUPD - psychs love them - let me tell you that for more years than I are to say in my head I was a total failure and felt like the world went on around me and I was in a separate room and couldn't join in. In the last 12 years there have been more times than not where I have been a hysterical, crying, ranting, anxiety ridden totally certifiable nut job :stupid: with some brilliant displays in GP's offices and still they didnt clock the connection to hormones! Probably because I was on Hrt albeit the wrong one and they dont know enough to work out that hrt doesnt work the same in everyone!
Since this meno thing has come into play and all the learning I have done, things going way back seem now to make perfect sense and now it appears I could actually start to rejoin the real world. It's scary I can tell you, because I have to go right back 44 years to remember when things were "right" and life was ok. It's like learning to live all over again because I cant remember what "right" supposed to feel like. I dont use the word normal because who of us and what is "normal"? ;) All I can say is about the hope thing and the patience thing because until a year ago I was convinced as I had been for 40 years there was no hope. It takes patience and thought and the will to keep looking for the answers.
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Ladybt. What an amazing reply. So full of insight
I am so sad that you have had such a struggle for so long but I'm so glad for you that things are looking a little brighter.
I too have felt labelled by my Mh diagnosis by the medical proffession and I definitely felt that it was a very convenient hook for docs to hang medical symptoms over the years.
In my 20s what turned out to be glandular fever was put down to depression
Shingles well at first that was just my anxiety giving me a rash.
I got sacked from a job in the early 90s
When gp refused to back me up that I was physically unwell until I got a second opinion, was referred to Barts and diagnosed with M.E.
Many times I've left the surgery crying. I used to think if I went in there with my arm hanging off they would say it's anxiety/depression.
Most recently I had been to docs several times with bloating. Pelvic pain, wind and acid reflux. All put down to anxiety. "Take a course of anti depressants and come back in 6 months.
I went back in 6vmonths (didn't take the ad's) and saw a locum and suddenly it was all systems go!! Scans; ca125 test. They were classic possible symptoms of OC. Luckily the locum followed the nice guidelines.cos a large tumour was discovered and I was very quickly referred to gynae/oncology.and had surgery.
I was one of the lucky ones and my tumour was a Dermoid I mention this not to go on about myself but because if it hadnt been benign the initial "it's all anxiety come back in 6 months" diagnosis could have wasted very precious time.
I remember when I had M.E. one day just shouting at the doc." DEPRESSION ISNT CAUSING MY SYMPTOMS. MY SYMPTOMS ARE MAKING ME DePRESSED".
Fast forward to a few weeks ago when I had cause to repeat the very same to GP when she said "you are anxious and depressed ABOUT menopause"
Sorry it's a long post but If what you and I have been through, and cobviously we are individuals, but if it resonates with anyone else then its a reason to speak up. I hate to think others might suffer as I have and I feel you have for so long
One final thing im gonna say in this post whilst im getting it off my chest
There is something i have bever been able to fiorget and i think it perfectly sums up what im trying to say. :
A particular GP had been positively nasty to me when I sat in his office crying and I refused to see him again. ..but..
When my wife was dying from cancer we found ourselves in front of him at her appointment he couldn't have been more different with her and he turned to me and said "see, I know when someone is realy ill"
I didn't complain. All my energy and focus was on my wife at that time.
But wow.
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That was a totally un-necessary comment and made because he knew you didn't have the energy to retort, how awful. I don't know why people go into the profession unless it's to be nasty and on a pedestal, pretty much like those that go into other professions to pry on children.
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The trouble with the ignorant GP's is that they rely on tests to prove a theory and when they don't have those or the condition can't be "proved" by tests they get their knickers in a twist! Tc The likes of ME/Chronic Fatigue/depression can't be diagnosed with a simple test. Thyroid tests and tests for stuff like Lymes Disease are notoriously unreliable and basically the NHS cant think outside the box. If they did they would save a fortune! for example when I went to the chemist yesterday to get my testosterone the young pharmacist called me over and with a furrowed brow said "do you know how to use this" to which I replied "oh yes" and went on to explain that I knew it wasn't licensed for women, that it was pea size amount to be used, that you didn't dose it as was on the label that it is now becoming mainstream as part of treatment of meno along with progesterone and oestrogen and that it was given by a meno consultant. As I was speaking the furrows disappeared she said "I have to ask because I have never known it to be given to a women before"! "its really good that you told me all this stuff because I would have no idea and now I will know for the future"! Jeez I despair of the medical profession - any of them why cant they keep up to date and such a young one as well, she couldn't have the excuse of "they didn't do that when I trained".
Not the pharmacist in particular but just generally I cannot believe the words that come out of the mouths of medical professionals who ought to know better - they are unbelievable sometimes and in any other job they would be sacked on the spot!
You are spot on with yelling the "depression isn't causing my symptoms my symptoms are causing my depression" but the GP is wrong when she says you are anxious about menopause. I knew perfectly well my head wasn't causing the problems my body was. With a real clued up meno specialist and there are only a handful about they would know that anxiety, depression and the long list of other symptoms that is on this website are all meno symptoms or hormonal in-balance symptoms.
You had trouble with the surgery getting your gel and utrogestan if I remember right but you have what you need now right??
Maybe things you thought about your health which seemed written in stone before will start to shift for you too. I am 57 and feel I wasted nearly all my life. Any meno Dr trying to take anything off me now because of my age is gonna have some task in front of them! I feel I am just starting my life.
You probably dont warrant half the labels people have come up with and I hope that's the case for you - anyway bin them out of your head they are not helpful :great:
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The Pharmacist was correct as it's off licence for women I believe? So hopefully she will make notes and absorb what you explained to her Ladybt - well done!
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What a spiteful and frankly childish remark from that GP. More proof that too many HCP don't believe in hormonal/reproductive depression, and thanks to their ignorance they consign too many women to suffer needlessly.
It was only when I finally read Prof Studd's website that I finally connected the dots between my 30 years of odd moods and occasionally outrageous behaviour to my HORMONES.
The only times I have suffered with any MH issues was during times of hormonal upheaval.
1. Just before I reached puberty I inexplicably suffered with sudden night terrors and feelings of doom (I was lucky to have enjoyed a happy childhood until then). Luckily these issues didn't last long, but were replaced by...
2. PMS sometimes quite bearable, others months I would suffer sudden rages, feelings of hopelessness, and instigated huge rows with various boyfriends. I could be a nightmare, I admit. Taking the Pill made no difference and often made it worse. Infact...
3. Starting a new brand of the Pill when I was at university caused a sudden awful flat mood and depression which lasted 8 months, with no relief. Everyone told me it was the stress of studying and exams ( except I enjoyed studying and always performed well in exams). I don't think it a coincidence that when I changed to a different brand of the Pill the awful depression lifted and I was 'just' left with PMS once a month (for a whole bloody week).
4. Having my first baby - within 2 days of giving birth I knew something was very wrong. I felt so flat, filled with despair and just didn't see the point of living. Within 3 weeks I was diagnosed with severe PND and my lovely Mum had to virtually move in with us to help take care of the baby. I was prescribed ADs but it took months to feel better, and 2 years before I felt fully recovered.
5. Finally, as I turned 40 I noticed my PMS was getting steadily worse and lasting longer and longer. By the time I turned 42 I was only getting maybe 10 'good' days each month. Then in Oct. 2013 the PMS didn't go away and it felt so much worse, just never ending. By Dec. 2013 I thought I was having some sort of breakdown and my GP diagnosed me with anxiety and depression (except I loved my life, absolutely nothing was wrong). Then suddenly the madness disappeared and I was fine for a few weeks. But then the madness came back, then went, then came back...I never knew from one day to the next how I would feel. I thought I was losing my marbles, no one knew what was wrong with me. ADs didn't seem to do much. I did some research and found my way to Annie Evans and she started me on 2 sachets of Sandreena gel + Utrogestan but I think it was too little, too late. I totally crashed. Couldn't bear leaving the house. Got signed off work and was referred to the Crisis Team. Suicide was never far from my thoughts. I was in such a dark place that I was terrified all the time. It was unspeakably bad. The psychiatrist I saw tried me on Trazadone which did nothing, no matter how much they upped the dose.
Eventually it was seeing Prof Studd and getting access to high doses of oestrogen which saved me. I feel better now than I ever have, really. My mood is so, so stable all the time (aside from a very occasional dip) and I feel calm and quietly cheerful. No more PMS. It's so lovely.Looking back I'm sad that I have lost so much of my daily life to hormonal interference and I hope that awareness of this illness or disease (because that's what it is) grows.
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Have a hug GRL! I too had PMT for several years and eating regularly helped. Every 3 hours 24/7. Took some getting used to but the puppy soon cottoned on ;)
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Ladybt28. Your experience at the pharmacy omg!! Wish I could say it shocks me but at least she will know better for next time.
Thank you for remembering bout my hrt. Finally got new regime scrip picked up and gonna start in the morning
I feel I want to talk to you about couple of things you said in your post to me but if you don't wanna talk about it I understand
First About the feeling you said you have "wasted your life."
I so get it and I have felt angry, regretful and guilty for the amount of time I spent Ill with so called mental health issues which I ultimately blamed myself for but I would clling onto believing that i had time to turn thungs around. Then cane meno. Suddenly I felt I've missed the boat. I
had so much to offer which I didn't do
I've had all the counselling about not "ruminating" a psychologist/psychiatrist word along with "catastrophising." No meaning in the real world. Oh and on my records 1 ^year after my wife of 21 years died "abnormal grief." Just words i think I've become numb to all the pyschobabble.
I am trying to realise but i have hard time with it. when ppl i know say things I have done are interesting or I have helped them, made them happy or contributed to their lives. I tend to disregard all that cos I ultimately hate myself and always think I could've done better and that's not pyschobabble that's me speaking from this, hopefully, still besting heart.
.
The logical part of my brain accepts that if spend the next 10 years regretting the last 40 I'm only gonna end up in another 10 years wasting the previous 10 regretting the last 50 ...you might need to read that again. I did. But i hope youi know whst I mean.
Ladybt something else you said:
"I feel I am just starting my life.".
I get it's a double edged sentiment but..
May I ask what that feeling means to you and if you would want to elaborate on that?
As I said please don't feel you have to share anymore than you already have. I appreciate so much you have shared so far and I sincerely wish you so much for now and the future x x
TC
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Ladies can I just poke my oar in to say what beautiful caring posts and how lovely of you to share your deepest fears and experiences with others who are maybe too shy or fearful to share but can relate.well done and im not going to go into details but just wanted to say there is light at the end of that tunnel we've all had some kind of turmoil in our lives.mh or otherwise and you can and will get past this.im coming up to 62 now and from age 25 onwards had experienced most of what your discussing and only got through it because I had the love and support of a good man and still do.Keep up the good vibes and support you are fab.DD😘
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Droopy. No oar poking here thank you for sharing. Xxxx
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::)😘
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I will answer your post Tc and am happy to share and expand, but it will have to be later this evening.
Didn't want you to think I was ignoring you.
Thanks Droopydrawers and GRL for your support :great:- it is so good to know that there are others in the world who have had similar experiences. I have been a constant battle in my head from a reflective point of view when I look back at my life which we all do as we get older and I thought till I came here to the forum, that the state of my life was somehow because of the choices I made but I am now aware that the choices I made and the events surrounding it happened has pretty much entirely been influence by my health. I'll tell you more about why I wrote "wasted" when I have more time! Working at the moment ::)
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When diagnosed with deep depression I would spend hours laying on the settee: cats on my body, dog beside me : and would worry that I was wasting my time. However, I was ill. There was no option at that time. I still take half a day at a time, try not to plan too far ahead as well as remembering that in the past it was OK and will be again.
Trying to treat hormonal upheavals might be the way to go Girls? Make notes about how you feel to take to the GP/Consultant. Have a treat every day: mine is a deep bubble bath, cuppa and good book or a long walk in fresh air.
Hindsight tells me that each part of my Life has been split into 'rooms'. Some good. Others sad ......... never wasted ;-).
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I think the substance of the issues we have been discussing are to do with "hindsight" and "reflection" CKLD not necessarily our current or very recent circumstances. My own have changed dramatically since August last year but before that it was same old same old. So basically I can break my issues down from age 13 to August 2018 at age 56! AD's spent 40 years making me numb with no relief whatsoever. In that time I had a couple of periods of 6-9 months without them but couldn't cope (I now understand that wasn't enough time to come off and get my head sorted but in hindsight I think things would have stayed pretty much the same or gone downhill) I had what I call the "mental time" for 12 years before August 18 where I was pretty certifiable because of peri. But the underlying theme in hindsight was "hormonal" issues.
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Hiya ladies. How are you all?
I've just stopped patch and started the gel and U regime 2 ays ago.
I'm supposed to be on 2 increasing to 3 pumps. But ive ignored that and started with 3.
The worst part is I'm supposed to take the U (100mg) every night continously.
I'm realy questioning this. Especially after reading prof studds regime and with his speciality in the depression anxiety side of hormones. I realy don't think I should be taking progesterone continually. Especially as..
The week before I switched I had found my mood slightly better. Probably the most bearable week since my op but....
BOth nights on the U I had horrendous nightmares and panic attacks throughout the night .and after nearly a week of relatively good mornings I woke up in a terrible state after taking the U pill.
At least with the patch I had 2 weeks a month off the bloody progesterone. Now I've got to take it every day.
I'm thinking I'm gonna go off piste with this and take it for 12 days. Kind of following prof studds regime although i havent go the Testosterone - yet( trust me I'm gonna scream for it at my next consultant appt)
I've got a pelvic and trans v ultrasound in Feb so that should give an indication of thickening I would imagine.
Hope this Saturday finds you all as well as can be.
Im just about ready to get up from my bed I woke at 7.00 and 'm still in it. Haven't been able to move.till about 10 minutes ago.
Anxiety . Experts talk about flight or fight But no one talks about how paralyzing it can be. How it makes you narrow your world down to the house, then to 1 room, then to one piece of furniture in my case my bed. I guess it's a way of trying to feel safe when fear has got it's ugly claws in you.
Anyway I think I can get up now. My sis is coming over in an hour so I won't be able to retreat back to bed which is a good thing. Just hope I can keep it together while she's here!!
Best wishes to you all.xx
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Anxiety . Experts talk about flight or fight But no one talks about how paralyzing it can be. How it makes you narrow your world down to the house, then to 1 room, then to one piece of furniture in my case my bed. I guess it's a way of trying to feel safe when fear has got it's ugly claws in you.
Anyway I think I can get up now. My sis is coming over in an hour so I won't be able to retreat back to bed which is a good thing. Just hope I can keep it together while she's here!!
:thankyou: "Paralyzing" such a good description. Hopefully you can cope when you sister visits. At my worst I was unable to open the door. Even being aware of the causation of anxiety and panic didn't stop those awful surges which within minutes make me suicidal.
Our history forges our future whether we remember issues or not.
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I always describe it as paralysing too!
Tc did you take the Utro orally or vaginally? I have said before I am supposed to take it continuously and only take it 10 days ( dont even get to 12) it works fine by the way and I use it vaginally not orally to keep any side effects to a minimum.
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Thanks lady. My sister called the crisis team tonight and they are gonna call back in morning she is staying with me tonight
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Bad night.
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Really sorry to hear that Tc - glad someone is with you. As you can see I am still up but will give sleeping another crack. being left with the falling asleep in the early hours symptoms don't bother me as much as the ones I have managed to get rid of. I am left with low libido, fluctuating energy levels, and days when my depression is somewhere between 3 to 5 on a scale of 1-10. I suppose people would say you are either depressed or your not but it's not as simple as that is it? As I said keep hoping Tc don't give up there is light and it does come...eventually. I have not spent a whole day in bed not getting up for just over 6 months! That's new!
Sending good thoughts and good wishes to you. You will get it sorted hang on in there!
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Hiya ladies. Wow. Had something of a meltdown last night
Feeling better today. Very tired so I'm resting. Anxiety is bubbling away there but at a lot lower level.
LADY I took the U Orally. Are you on 100 or 200? I'm wondering if it's ok to take it vaginally as well as the estriol cream.im still using that every night. Can't seem to reduce it. Didn't use it last night and today symptoms are back.
I hate having to use that estriol cream. It's so messy and it smells weird. What with covering my arms in the gel. I feel uncomfortable and like I'm not clean. I am going to ask for vagifem.
There has been some amazing, honest posts on this thread. Lady it's so great to hear you say you haven't had a bed day for 6 months. Long may it continue..
Did you find the testosterone made a big difference to your symptoms?
Hope all you ladies are having a nice Sunday.
Think I'm gonna try to sleep as I was up all night. At leastvi got through it tho.
Xx
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Glad to hear you are feeling better Tc. Just to say I have had bad days in 6 months but none of my "hid under the duvet" days which had been so prevalent in the last 10 years!! to be honest I probably slept my way through 4 out of 10 years! Sounds terrible but it was terrible and perfectly true. I work on a scale of 1 to 10 to describe bad - in 10 years they never went below 7. Now we are at 4..... mostly - my goal is to get to what I would classify as an ok 0! lol!!
Now to answer your practical stuff...
So I taken Utrogestan it vaginally and I use 200 (2 capsules) each night. The cream you use is for VA yes? If you don't like it definitely ask for something else. I cant help there that is the one problem I have not had, thank god, suppose I made it up with all the rest! There are plenty of ladies who use the cream and the Utrogestan together though.
Using the utro vaginally means you push the capsules as far up the vagina with a finger or an applicator. It doesn't come with an applicator because it is not licensed to be used that way but it is ABSOLUTELY FINE to be used that way. Lots of consultants recommend it especially for progesterone intolerant women. I use an old applicator from Caneston thrush pessaries, and pop the capsules in there and push them up! Maybe go to a chemist and ask if they could give you an applicator if you don't have one or get one by buying some Caneston! Works a treat because I find the problem with using my finger is I can't get them far enough up and they start to melt! - there is definitely a technique!!
So using your Gel...I alternate between rubbing it into my thighs or my arms in the morning. I have learned that you rub the gel in vigorously..don't half rub and leave it to dry - rub it in until it is all gone - then you get no "stickiness".
Ref testosterone it is early days I only got it last Wednesday. I am building slowly. I got Tostran 2% gel which is in a small pump. I am using a pea size (possibly half a pump) blob on the end of my finger every other day and just putting it on the inside of my thigh (on thigh days for gel, I do it half hour after my gel). I would think it takes about a month to really get a good picture as to what is happening. To date my mind has been a bit clearer and I went out to the shops from Midday yesterday until 8pm because we ended up in B&Q who open late on Saturdays looking at some DIY stuff. Normally I couldn't have managed that, I would have had to have come home after about 3 hours!
I will let you know if I start getting a deep voice, hairs on my chin or want to punch someone on a regular basis ;D ;D ;D
Get some rest!! and yes you did get through it and you will, if you persist get something that makes you feel better.. :foryou:
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:thankyou:
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Sometimes the body takes over >:( and I always feel so tired after panic attacks.
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How are you doing CKLD? You have had a few rough days as well...no? I have to say that in the general scheme of things I am picking up which to be honest classifies as a flaming miracle!...as you well know, as you have been reading and replying to my posts for some time now.
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:foryou: CLKD
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CLKD how are You?
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Hiya ladies. Hope this post finds you as well as can be.
I am working mysel into a right stew about this .hrt
I had a relatively good week before starting this new regime. Best I've had so far by a long way . dont know whether the patch was finally kicking in but it's not available anymore anyway so I would have had to change at some point but..
Since the weekend I feel worse than ever. As you know I had a bad weekend it felt like I took a giant step backwards right back to my first crash and starting the patch.
I'm having horrible physical aide effects which had started to settle previously but they are all back.
I'm trying to tell myself it might be initial symptoms on a new regime that will settle down but I don't realy know if that's true.
I've posted on a seperate thread about breast pain but there is a seperate issue for me around the Hrt which I feel some might find hard to understand but I feel safe to say on here
my anxiety has in the past lead me to have OCD like symptoms around hand washing and a fear of chemicals/contamination. at one point it effected my life in every single way. I dont know how my wife didnt leave me. I overcame it with help to a certsin extent but some leftover rituals and fears are always waiting in the wings to re emerge when im highly stressed.
So.. I realy feel like using the gel is triggering me in that I'm concerned about transferring it to other parts ofv my body and have gone through so many shower puffs already cos once I use it on my Arms I throw it away. And I'm wearing two tops in case it rubs off.
I know it's irrational but I don't feel clean with it am aware of it all the time on and I realy don't want to return to the days when it took me 2 hours in the bathroom to complete my washing regime..
The side effects are one issue and I'm worried it's not working and that I'm back to square one in that department and that nothing will ever work I know I'm being impatient but hope you ladies on here will understand as we have discussed anxiety making us impatient.
I want to use the best regime for symptoms as you know primarily anxiety and depression but using the Hrt is feeding my anxiety. Focussing on it way too much. "Its not working, am I taking too much, is it poisening me, giving me cancer, is the lining of my womb thickening and am I gonna end up with a hysterectomy because of that..
"
Talk about stuck in a vicious cycle.
I know all this is a manifestation of my anxiety but getting hormone levels right would seem to be key to easing that anxiety and now I'm developing anxiety ABOUT the treatment
I have still not booked my colonoscopy cos I just don't think I can handle it at the moment.
Ive got to get through the next 3 months to see if ithe new regime works but boy oh boy it feels like a long time.
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morning TC, yes 3 months is a long time and you have only just started. If I remember you are about a week in from getting your gel? Completely understand the irrationality and OCD tendancies are beyond controlling when they get into full flight. I didn't have health anxiety except I was convinced I had alzheimers! but I had ridiculous fears about just everything else like if my husband or my son left the house they wouldn't come back something was going to happen to them, knocked down, mugged, stabbed! We were going to get burgled - I had just about every irrational fear you could imagine although being convinced you have alzheimers is pretty irrational ::) I couldn't leave the house in August and I was afraid if the phone rang that it would be telling me that someone was dead! Now put that in context, I have my own business I work from home and my customers call me all the time under normal circumstances - no a good position to be in if you can't answer the phone! :( ???
It is changing the regime that has done this and you have only 2 choices - give it up altogether and keep the other list of horrible symptoms or ride it out honey! You cant go back to the previous patch because they are discontinued.
I'm trying to tell myself it might be initial symptoms on a new regime that will settle down but I don't really know if that's true.
You have learned much from the forum Tc - trust your gut - you do know that changing a regime can do this - so it is true! and you have an underlying fear that if you give up then that's not going to work either... so my friend...the only way when you consider it... is onwards..using CKLD's trick of tackling half a day at a time! I used to use the counting trick all the time but mine was in 10 or 20 minute slots sometimes. I programmed my head to say - "if I can get through the next hour - everything will be fine" and then tried to find something to destract my mind for the next hour! and then just did it again over an over. I have never had OCD which I believe is a sort of "control anxiety thing" (sorry if I am way off I dont mean to be) but I know I do like to do stuff that makes me feel more in control when things get hairy! Hour by hour made me feel a little more in control.
Others will be along soon with their thoughts Tc but keep posting here and we will try to talk you through it. We have talked a lot about patience over the last few days...stick with it Tc...dont give up just yet it's too early...you will end up never knowing if it would work
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Thanks lady. Hearing from you gives me so much hope. I'm so glad you are doing well.
I've just given myself a talking to. I realy need to put up or shut up. I have to give it the 3 months so I have to beat the compulsive thoughts and behaviour . I have to go back to how I dealt with it before by constantly telling myself. You don't need to wash your hands walk away from the sink. You can wash them in 10 minutes. Get into the shower and think about a story in my head.or Try to list all the abba songs I know or something anything to take my mind off what I'm actually doing. Ive often been told about mindfulness but in many ways when it comes to the compulsions my strategy is the opposite of mindfulness.
Anyway. You ate right 2 choices. I can't make the drugs work any quicker. I can't make time pass. Ive got to deal with what is facing me today. And distract distract distract.
Doesn't help I had a huge row with my sis she told me my "issues" have always made everyone's life a misery including my wife's and that I'm selfish. I tried to confide in her but she doesn't understand. When I told her I had thought of hurting myself she said "how dare you put that on me" horrendous weekend no one is gonna helo me I have to help myself.
Amazing how when I sit and realy think about it I can come up with solutions. It's just it doesn't take much to knock me back.no even keel at moment but I have inspiration on here. So. Gonna shower thinking of abba songs get dressed and just deal with today.
Thank you for taking time to reply. Hope you continue to do well. Xxxx
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There you go Tc - don't let the demons in your head run riot - you CAN put them back in their box! :) No you cant make the time go or the drugs work quicker!
As for unsupportive family members knocking you down, try not to engage with them or discuss it, they will never understand! but just remember your sister is younger than you and it is going to happen to her someday! Call it Karma when it happens, cos it comes to us all! Mind you she is probably going to be one of the sickening people who sails through menopause without a care in the world! ho hum but she might just have a horrible time of it and then it can be your turn to tell her "that her issues are making everyone's life a misery"! - hold that thought ;)
"one day at a time, sweet jesus" - so says the old country song! Shout out if you feel yourself falling :great:
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Will do. Same goes to you and of the other ladies on this thread who are suffering in a similar or same way. 👍