Menopause Matters Forum
Menopause Discussion => Other Health Discussion => Topic started by: Tc on June 23, 2019, 08:39:21 PM
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Hiya. In the last week or so I've developed pain around my lower back /upper bum in a band going round and into both hips and down front of legs. It was only top of legs at first but now it's going right down my left leg even into top of foot. . I had trouble sleeping last night because of it and today its realy painful even though I'm taking pain killers.
I wondered if its sciatica but I thought that went down the back of legs.
Any experience/advice greatly appreciated.
Xxx
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Hmmm.
I slipped and burst a disc (the same one, at the same time). I ended up with sciatica, but it only went down one leg. My foot ended up going numb for a while.
I had done the damage by moving a wardrobe. I had 2 weeks of localised back ache. Then the back ache went, and 4 hours later ... bam ... the most agonising pain down the leg.
Have you done anything recently that could have resulted in back damage ?
x
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Hiya pants. I've been more active than I have for ages but only everyday things.i do have 3 flights of stairs to climb up with my shopping though. It doesnt realy hurt when I twist or bend although its stiff. ithe back pain and hip is an ache but down leg is more of a gnawing pain.
The top of my foot has been throbbing.all day.
Xxx
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I've been doing pelvic floor excersises a couple weeks now. Maybe I should stop them a few days.
Thanks birdy.x
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Tc, also, since starting the HRT every single muscle I have ever pulled in my entire life has hurt at some point over the last 10 weeks. I think its the hormones going back into the muscles.
You upped to 250 ( :o) a while ago, maybe you are finally absorbing something and this is your body's way of telling you.
Which would be awesome, if annoying at the same time. :-*
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I get sciatica when I don't kneel to do chores below waist level. Pain relief and a brisk walk usually eases the pain.
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Thanks CLKD. X
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I have to remember to kneel though :-\ or I can feel the nerve pulling. When I had dogs it was often a problem when putting on/taking off leads ::).
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Yes. Especially as I've been feeling better in myself. Maybe it's the HRT or maybe it's a meno symptom which has just taken longer to arrive than the others. What joy!!!
CLKD. Because I've been up and out every day the last week I've washed my hair every morning and my shower is broken so I've been leaning over the bath and it's a realy high sided bath. It might have triggered it.
Didnt sleep much because of it again last night. Ibuprofen would be good but I'm not supposed to take it as I have asthma. So its paracetamol. Think I'll get some extra strength.
Thanks ladies. Xx
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Yep. That's another area where I can feel the nerve pulling ::)
Paracetamol does nowt for me ???
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Tc, stick a hot water bottle on the worst bit. If you can bear it in this heat.
Can you see a physio or get a sports massage?
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I've had sciatica since I was 15 (I have scoliosis, 40° so my spine looks like the Zorro signature and many discs are misplaced and worn). Unfortunately when it hits you there isn't much to be done. Strong pain killers, anti inflammatory drugs, relax, some slow walks if you can walk and wait until it gets better. Sometimes it hits you for a week, sometimes it lasts for a year. If it gets too crippling, disc surgery.
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Thank you cacorosa. Sorry you suffer so badly with this. I would imagine menopause hasnt helped at all.
Mine has eased a lot now. Interestingly, I see a womens physio for prolapse/bladder issues and she mentioned my pelvis and hips were very tight and might have set it off.
Thank you for the advice
I wish you well. Xxx
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Pelvis and hips 'tight' - I've never been able to touch my toes without bending my knees. Is that what she means ? :-\
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Haha. I dont think so. I think she meant the ligaments. Maybe due to the surgery.
How are you CLKD?
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I would imagine menopause hasnt helped at all.
For now, no changes. Back pain same as usual, no worsening of the scoliosis and last sciatica crisis was two years ago. Bone density still good. Since I have just started Qlaira and just entered peri (first flushes two weeks ago) I hope the protective effect of the pill on bones, muscles and ligaments will somehow keep everything the same... more or less...
But I intend to be on BCP and then HTR as long as I can to keep my vertebrae in place
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My sciatica was sorted very well by physio.
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Tc - OK I think ......... bit early to decide :D
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Lucky you. I know some people swear they get relief from physio massage. I'm very skeptical about physiotherapy. Unless it envolves exercises for the lower back. In that case strengthening those muscles really help to keep the discs in their place. But I find that lifting weights (under supervision) and cycling in a bike that lets you sit straight works equally well.
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Loosing weight also helps with sciatica because it lessens the pressure on your vertebrae. Carrying around less weight puts less pressure on your lower back
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We evolved upright. Not the right way to go ;D - chimps lean forwards in the main whist walking.
Physio following recent X-rays can help. As long as the sufferer practices. Which is where I come unstuck, I don't kneel when I ought to. So the nerve pulls ........ a good bed, supportive footwear, good gait and posture are extremely important.
Swimming with extension can ease symptoms. But good pain relief and exercise regularly as well as remembering to kneel ::) 8)
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Yes, swimming is really good for problematic spines. Also nordic walking. About 10 years ago, when I started nordic walking I remember I read a paper that concluded that nordic walking was superior to swimming in the management of back pains including sciatica, scoliosis, etc
Really everything that strengthens back muscles without putting too much pressure on them is advisable.
But running damages the lower back and can worsen sciatica since it involves jumping. Aerobics, step, anything that involves jumping can worsen sciatica.
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Lucky you. I know some people swear they get relief from physio massage. I'm very skeptical about physiotherapy. Unless it envolves exercises for the lower back. In that case strengthening those muscles really help to keep the discs in their place. But I find that lifting weights (under supervision) and cycling in a bike that lets you sit straight works equally well.
It was a lot more than just massage. Manipulation at the clinic, home exercises and then manipulation to correct the out of place disc. It took several weeks but have had no more trouble since and this was about eight years ago.
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I know, I was diagnosed progressive scoliosis when I was 12. As you may imagine, I have been to many physios in my life, both from the public health system and privates. I remain skeptical, but if it's good for you, keep on them
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The physio thinks pelvic floor might be my problem. I'm not convinced.
I probably should have a bone scan as I've had lifelong eating disorders. I've got a protruding hard "hump" at the top of my spine which can be seen and felt. It realy hurts sometimes. And it's got bigger.
53 isnt considered young for ovary removal but I ve got low eastrogen. HRT isnt bringing the level up enough to protect my bones. And now at 54 I think they still need protecting dont you? Doc hasnt mentioned it. My mum and both sisters have osteoporosis from their 40's with many fractures leading to osteo arthritis. . My nan was pretty bent over with the hump by the time she was in her 60's so I do worry about my "hump".
Xxx
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Your GP Tc should be able to refer you for a scan to check bone density.
Manipulation should never be done without sedation as the person can move which may have tragic consequences.
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Your GP Tc should be able to refer you for a scan to check bone density.
Manipulation should never be done without sedation as the person can move which may have tragic consequences.
This!
And many pseudo-therapists ("osteopaths") disguise themselves as real physios. You have to be very careful, as osteopaths are dangerous. There has been some deaths and severe permanent damages provoked by osteopaths
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Your GP Tc should be able to refer you for a scan to check bone density.
Manipulation should never be done without sedation as the person can move which may have tragic consequences.
We have been through this discussion on another thread CLKD. My physio is a professional and knew exactly what she was doing and I was referred by my GP. There was absolutely no problem with the treatment I received.
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Your GP Tc should be able to refer you for a scan to check bone density.
Manipulation should never be done without sedation as the person can move which may have tragic consequences.
This!
And many pseudo-therapists ("osteopaths") disguise themselves as real physios. You have to be very careful, as osteopaths are dangerous. There has been some deaths and severe permanent damages provoked by osteopaths
That sounds like scaremongering. If you are referred by a GP to someone with professional accreditation there is no problem.
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Tc I really don't understand what's the supposed relation between pelvic floor and the sciatic nerve... let me raise my eyebrow á la Spock
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I know!! I think shes obsessed with pelvic floor. ::)
The pain started in my back and round hips. That is still there but luckily the nerve pain down leg is a lot better.
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I know a big tumour in the uterus can press the sciatic nerve but pelvic floor problems... I"d ask for a second opinion
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I have got uterine prolapse so maybe that's where her thinking came from.
I've had so many symptoms with such sudden onset after ovary removal last year. I've been in that drs more than I've been in my whole life.
The aches and pains seem to have been the last symptom to appear. So I have to pick my moments with the doc. I tend to ask for one thing at a time, otherwise I can see her eyes glaze over!!!
Nice to chat to you cacarosa. I dont think our paths have crossed before.
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Sorry to hear that.
Perhaps leveling up your HRT could help since you said it wasn't helping much with your bones
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Nice to chat to you cacarosa. I dont think our paths have crossed before.
Thanks. I'm new here, been lurking for two weeks since my hot flushes began and joined two days ago
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That sounds like scaremongering. If you are referred by a GP to someone with professional accreditation there is no problem.
Unfortunately some GPs refer people to homeopaths and naturopaths
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That sounds like scaremongering. If you are referred by a GP to someone with professional accreditation there is no problem.
Unfortunately some GPs refer people to homeopaths and naturopaths
Physiotherapist are neither of those. :o
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I know. I meant that a referral from a GP is not always a guarantee. Some GPs endorse pseudotherapies. My mum was prescribed some herbals and homeopathic nonsense by a private, expensive GP. Since she's a skeptic and doesn't believe in pseudoscience she changed to another GP but got very angry for the quackery
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Cacarosa - have you ever talked to someone who underwent manipulation by a Consultant without GA - I have. Two. Because they were not relaxed they moved whilst the spine was being manipulated. One will never walk again. The other fortunately with good physio. rehabilitation regained some mobility. There are instances World wide of people being having been paralysed from the level of manipulation.
Having watched it done I would never undergo such a procedure without being asleep. Also, no one should manipulate anyone's spine without seeing a recent X-ray. I know of a woman who could have been paralysed had she undergone this done by a physio. as she had a congenital abnormality.
It doesn't matter if a GP has referred a patient to another professional :-\ ......... it's the procedure which can cause life-long changes.
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No, I never net anyone so unlucky but many similar cases can be found searching the web. I remember that poor girl, a Playboy model, who died after having her neck manipulated
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CLKD, you are not a medical professional so please don't try and tell me about my treatment or those who treated me. I did send you the link for the physio I used and all their qualifications are listed, when we had this discussion before.
I listened to my GP first thanks.
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Of course lots can be found on the web. but we were searching for specifics to see if there is a recorded incidence of paralysis during manipulation without anaesthetic.
It's wise to know. So that 1 can make informed decisions. Maybe I was too involved ::) !
Fortunately I don't ache anywhere today :o ....... am being extra careful in my movements, lifting watering cans etc.. Particularly as 'nurofen' gives me heart burn >:(
I do have experience in the topic - fortunately, many people undergo procedures without problems, many do not. If my long-term knowledge of discussions about this subject with many professionals World wide saves 1 person from life-long paralysis? No professional of course would treat any one without seeing recent X-rays or Reports and of course, people would discuss the pros/cons prior to signing the consent forms etc.. Trouble is, many still accept that Dr knows best but sadly, some are damaged; with medication reactions or procedures.
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Of course lots can be found on the web. but we were searching for specifics to see if there is a recorded incidence of paralysis during manipulation without anaesthetic.
It's wise to know. So that 1 can make informed decisions. Maybe I was too involved ::) !
Fortunately I don't ache anywhere today :o ....... am being extra careful in my movements, lifting watering cans etc.. Particularly as 'nurofen' gives me heart burn >:(
I do have experience in the topic - fortunately, many people undergo procedures without problems, many do not. If my long-term knowledge of discussions about this subject with many professionals World wide saves 1 person from life-long paralysis? No professional of course would treat any one without seeing recent X-rays or Reports and of course, people would discuss the pros/cons prior to signing the consent forms etc.. Trouble is, many still accept that Dr knows best but sadly, some are damaged; with medication reactions or procedures.
I agree with that. Statins for example!!
You don't give links etc., or explain your experience. :-\. Isn't that in the T&Cs
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Shadyglade this may interest you
"There is a lack of strong evidence to support the role of spinal manipulation in disc herniation, though some weak evidence suggests it may be beneficial in the early stages. Some of the difficulties in gaining evidence on rare events and determining causality is discussed. The underlying pathophysiological mechanisms of benefit or harm are poorly understood."
https://www.journalofosteopathicmedicine.com/article/S1746-0689(06)00096-4/abstract
It is currently not possible to provide an overall conclusion about the safety of SMT (spinal manipulation therapy); however, the types of SAEs reported can indeed be significant, sustaining that some risk is present. High quality research and consistent reporting of AEs and SAEs are needed.
https://systematicreviewsjournal.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s13643-017-0458-y
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I remember in the 1970s when people suffering really bad sciatica would be admitted and treated with weights. The patient would lay flat sometimes for months the idea being that separation between the discs would give relief from the pain. The weights would be hung over the bed pulling the patients legs to ease contact in the spine. Plus pain relief as necessary. As pain resolved the weights would be lightened [clear as mud]. Think this idea went out in the 2000s though, it obviously caused beds to be blocked ....... I remember in the 1960s my Dad being hung from a door: his fingers were gripping the top and the GP would pull his body away to increase the gap between the discs to relieve pressure.
Usually when my parents had back problems it was due to not bending correctly >:(.
Tnx Cacarosa :thankyou:
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Shadyglade this may interest you
"There is a lack of strong evidence to support the role of spinal manipulation in disc herniation, though some weak evidence suggests it may be beneficial in the early stages. Some of the difficulties in gaining evidence on rare events and determining causality is discussed. The underlying pathophysiological mechanisms of benefit or harm are poorly understood."
https://www.journalofosteopathicmedicine.com/article/S1746-0689(06)00096-4/abstract
It is currently not possible to provide an overall conclusion about the safety of SMT (spinal manipulation therapy); however, the types of SAEs reported can indeed be significant, sustaining that some risk is present. High quality research and consistent reporting of AEs and SAEs are needed.
https://systematicreviewsjournal.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s13643-017-0458-y
Thanks but the second article tells me nothing and the first is 13 years old.
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I remember when people suffering really bad sciatica would be admitted and treated with weights. The patient would lay flat sometimes for months the idea being that separation between the discs would give relief from the pain. The weights would be hung over the bed pulling the patients legs to ease contact in the spine. Plus pain relief as necessary. As pain resolved the weights would be lightened [clear as mud]. Think this idea went out in the 2000s though, it obviously caused beds to be blocked ....... I remember my Dad being hung from a door: his fingers were gripping the top and the GP would pull his body away to increase the gap between the discs to relieve pressure.
Usually when my parents had back problems it was due to not bending correctly >:(.
Tnx Cacarosa :thankyou:
Interesting but not really up-to-date, and no links. My physio does MRIs and my problem had nothing to do with bending.
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What's with the need for Links :-\ - I threw my shorthand note books away over 30 years ago ........ experience counts, of course.
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What's with the need for Links :-\ - I threw my shorthand note books away over 30 years ago ........ experience counts, of course.
With respect CLKD you were a Medical Secretary, not a recently trained physio. You really have made me quite annoyed. I had the treatment and am very glad I did.
Thank you.
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"quite" - that'll do on a hot day ...... I worked closely with many specialities in my nearly 11 years career so picked up information :whist:
What's your problem exactly?
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I remember in the 1970s when people suffering really bad sciatica would be admitted and treated with weights. The patient would lay flat sometimes for months the idea being that separation between the discs would give relief from the pain.
I was treated like that during the 80's for scoliosis as a teenager. The idea was to stretch the spine and straighten the vertebrae before a plaster cast was applied to my trunk and hips. Slept with weights hanging from my neck and hips like a torture rack for a year. And then 2 months day and night in bed at the hospital before they put the cast. Scoliosis surgery then was too risky and they were trying to avoid it.
Stretching the spine like that gives you relief only while it's stretched. The moment you take off the weights and stand up the bones go back to their position (gravity is a b#**)
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"quite" - that'll do on a hot day ...... I worked closely with many specialities in my nearly 11 years career so picked up information :whist:
What's your problem exactly?
Manipulation is a recommended treatment for sciatica under NICE guidelines. Traction is not. Your information is out of date.
https://www.nice.org.uk/guidance/NG59/chapter/Recommendations#assessment-of-low-back-pain-and-sciatica
Manual therapies
1.2.6 Do not offer traction for managing low back pain with or without sciatica.
1.2.7 Consider manual therapy (spinal manipulation, mobilisation or soft tissue techniques such as massage) for
managing low back pain with or without sciatica, but only as part of a treatment package including exercise, with or without
psychological therapy.
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I remember in the 1970s when people suffering really bad sciatica - :whist:
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I remember in the 1970s when people suffering really bad sciatica - :whist:
Er, I'm missing your point here CLKD.
I had really bad sciatica in the 2000s. Left foot went numb and I could hardly walk, plus no sleep.
Treatments change and evolve.
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I had an awful six months of Sciatica two years ago, couldn't sit down and had to eat meals standing up, so my ironing board was ideal for that ;D Fortunately was able to sleep reasonably well if dosed up on painkillers. I was prescribed Naproxen and physio, but found walking miles and miles helped more.