Menopause Matters Forum
Menopause Discussion => Alternative Therapies => Topic started by: dangermouse on September 26, 2017, 10:26:43 PM
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Has anyone here tried a ketogenic diet?
I've been told it's very effective for all sorts of dis-ease in the body including hormonal imbalance and migraines.
I'm only on Day 5 but the adrenaline surges seem to have calmed down and I feel more relaxed in myself. Early days of course though.
I used to do intermittent fasting about 20 years ago and I did feel good over that period of time and, although it wasn't ketogenic in terms of carb quantities, the fasting kept my blood sugar level and insulin down and I could literally taste the fat being burned.
Was just interested if anyone else here had tried a ketone producing diet?
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Hi there dangermouse
I haven't tried it as such - as I don't tend to do any of these diets with names but just follow general priniciples - although I have been on a pretty low carb diet. Mine was for weight loss and suggested by my son who is into muscle building and weights and thought I was eating too many carbs ( even though they were all healthy!). Any low-ish carb diet does have the fantastic benefit of regulating blood sugar levels as you have found which is recommended for those who suffer severe pms and any hormonal fluctuations because of the effects of oestrogen and progesterone on blood sugar metabolism - so I can imagine is also good for peri-menopause too. Not sure about it being an alternative to HRT when peri-menopause proper kicks in though, but a good start for feeling better and less dizzy/light-headed!
I presume what you can taste is the fruity taste of acetone which is excreted when ketones are broken down and I think is smelt on the breath of those fasting or some diabetics (uncontrolled?)?
I've never done it as extremely as that ie induced ketosis as I still ate pulses and beans, and some root veg - but apparently it can have some effect even if carb containing foods are not completely eliminated. Although I'm still pretty low carb I have gone back to eating more - specifically oats for breakfast as I have high cholesterol.
Glad you are feeling calmed as a result - I'm all for using diet to improve health and well-being :)
Hurdity x
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I read that as 'catatonic' ::)
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I think I was following that one before CLKD!
It is interesting how many keto diets there are out there. Atkins (first phase) of course being the most well known.
Oestrogen highs also seem to have really increased my fat cells (in the pregnancy areas) so it will be interesting to see if that can be reversed or if once it's there, it's there. Breast feeding made my sister 2 dress sizes smaller compared to pre-babies and, as this is also a temporary high hormone state, it does appear to be a possibility.
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I've just realised that I have never given up fruit which is banned on that diet due to the sugars - even though they are fruit sugar mainly! Fruit is my snack of choice and we have abundant apples and blackberries around here so I eat them stewed usually daily (without sugar of course ::) ).
Have you given up all fruit completely dangermouse?
Hurdity x
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Berries are fine, it's about keeping carbs to around 20g per day.
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Yes I know of this diet. My husband and myself have been doing the LCHF
( low carb healthy fat) lifestyle for over 2 years. Our carb intake varies between 20-60 g a day. I know of many people who had major success on the ketogenic way of eating, especially to manage their diabetes 2 and epilepsy. I was well on my way to be a type 2 diabetic with eating in accordance to the national triangle's guidelines. By eating low to very low carb (ketogenic) I have normal bloodsugars now, lost weight and able to maintain that with no problem. The moment I increase my carbs above 60g, my cravings return.
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There was an interesting article in New Scientist (2 September) about the effect on the brain of menopause and similarities to Alzheimer's.
Ketogenic diet was suggested (as the brain ages, it gets its energy from fats, rather than glucose and uses up fats in the brain, ie myelin round the nurones). However, that is at odds with the Mediterranean diet's positive impact on brain health and high fat might not be a good answer for people who are putting weight on round the middle.
Exercise, however, is good for the mitochondria, congnition and all the menopausal symptoms. Just got to do more exercise ...... ::)
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Great to hear all of that thanks!
I've done lots of low carb and intermittent fasting in the past but it's always felt hard to stick to but it's feeling so much easier by keeping carbs ultra low and fat much higher.
I think dietary fat, although calorie dense, is so satiating that it's hard to overeat it otherwise, yes, if calories go too high then they will be the only thing you'll burn so it won't releas stored fat. Although can still make you feel good.
I certainly have more energy to exercise so that's good too!
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I have noticed if I do not stay low carb and eat high carbs and wrong carbs (like white bread, cake etc) I struggle with nightsweats and flushes that night or the following day. I get the feeling the insulin release after high carb intake (especially when not used to high carbs any longer) triggers a hormonal domino effect. That in itself keep me on the straight and narrow!
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I try to follow a meditteranean style diet, with some cake thrown in. If I need a weight loss, I follow the principles of the zone diet, which seems to involve the same foods I eat, but limit the portions and the bread type carbs. Aren't the low carb style diets quite harsh in the kidneys though.
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I am usually all right with plenty veg and complex carbs and protein. I try and stick to the low glycaemic index ones.
If I have too much refined stuff, especially without the cushion of slow release carbs, I go sleepy. This is more obvious the older I get.
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I did some checking and it seems the kidney stress is from high levels of protein. I'm being careful not to have too much protein (as it's easy to do when you're replacing carbs) so I'm focusing more on the fats and normal amounts of protein.
My friend is here for the weekend and I did have a 'few' drinks last night (in the interests of carb cycling 8) and was wondering (dreading) how this would affect me. Well I've woken up very perky so it seems to help with the liver as, prior to this since peri, I've had some bad hangovers!
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I have also experienced the sleepiness due to refined carbs or food with a high glycaemic index. Not good...
I agree re the kidney stress related to high protein diets. Ketogenic is not high protein, it is adequate protein and very low carbs.
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Just to update, I decided the ketogenic diet was not good for me as it is incredibly stressful to the adrenals if your's aren't strong. Cutting sugar so much can also damage the metabolism (theory) so I now include fruits and raw carrot and starches like potatoes and some grains. My gut is a lot happier!
Our bodies are all different though and I know some people do well on keto and cutting carbs.
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Sounds very sensible. I have tried very low carb diets a couple of times and get very irritable. I think, like you say, is a good balance with a few starchy carbs. I can't imagine going through the summer with no new potatoes.
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I'll quite happily stand with a scalpel shadyglade and take slithers off my new potatoes ,I don't like skins on potatoes, then when I boil them I put my himalayan pink salt on them and drizzle of olive oil,just to die for.I couldn't deprive myself of them like you say lol x
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New potatoes are ok, glycaemic index wise. It is the fluffy old potatoes, mashed potatoes etc that are more carby.
I keep the skins on as I am lazy and it contributes to the fibre in my diet. I have discovered that white toast, especially cheese on toast, contributes to my bunging up :-\, so I am now on a 'three prunes after every meal' diet. :-X
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Try a spoon of raw organic coconut oil every night dahliagirl it's much more efficient than the prunes,which I love by the way,it really smooths the way and has so many other health benefits,it's only £2 for the small blue tub from h and b stores so if you like you can then buy the bigger jar.keep it at room temp it's runny and easier to take that way,it solidifies in the fridge,it has no shelf life as it's antibacterial.xx
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I'm afraid I have already tried coconut oil. I was having a breakfast of oats, chia, flax, and raisins with a spoonful of coconut oil, soaked in boiling water (sort of a vegan porridge) and even that didn't make me regular. The only thing that really works is movicol. Unfortunately, I think coconut belongs the [very long] list of things that make me sneeze. :(
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I'm not a huge fan of of anything coconuty but I have bought a coconut oil spray for frying 🍳.
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Ooh yes, I use the coconut oil with the taste removed for frying eggs but have read to have a teaspoon in coffee - I'll have in something less coffee tasting though. You can see there's a theme here for me...!
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Morning Dangermouse have a look at the low Salicylate Diet it's really interesting,just type that in google for info,I noticed that the symptoms mirror the menopause symptoms.Im enjoying learning about it and low oxalates,good for kidney stones etc.xx
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Until last year I worked with children with brain injury many of whom suffered with life threatening epilepsy. In extreme cases specialists sometimes prescribed the Ketogenic diet and sometimes the results were very positive. The film "First Do No Harm" (based on a true story) is all about a boy whose parents try the Ketogenic diet to treat his epilepsy as a last resort. It's a good watch :-) x
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Yes I love that film too!
Thanks Daisydot, I will check out that diet, my Mum has a severe salicylate allergy and was admitted to hospital a few years ago as her face swelled up quite badly.
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Thanks Tiddles, not heard of that film, just sat & watched it on my tablet. Very interesting..