Menopause Matters Forum
General Discussion => This 'n' That => Topic started by: CLKD on May 10, 2009, 04:29:17 PM
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Billy-do ....... is this in general useage or was it my Mum's invention?
Make your bed and lie in it
Don't come crying to me when it all goes wrong
Don't cry over split milk ..........
A friend was talking about food this morning and mentioned that he had a plate of sea-food piled like a Desperate Dan's dinner so we got to wondering whether anyone of the current generation would understand a DD dinner .......... ???
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Hello CLKD :)
Billy-do isn't something I've heard before. Can you tell me what it means please? Sorry for being thick. :)
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Do you mean billet-doux? It's a love letter. ;)
Don't be impressed with my French BTW, I did it as a schoolgirl and it's pretty rusty! :-[
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My mum used to say of stupid people "If brains were dynamite - he wouldn't have enough to blow his hat off"
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Desperate Dan is still around so this generation will definitely know what a Desperate Dan Dinner is.
I think the saying is "You made your bed so now you lie in it" Well, that's what my mum used to say to me when I had made a wrong choice anyway.
Suffolk saying for people who were mean with their money "He wouldn't give you the drippings off his nose"
Taz x
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THE 1500'S
The next time you are washing your hands and complain because the water temperature isn't just how you like it, think about how things used to be. Here are some facts about the1500s:
Most people got married in June because they took their yearly bath in May, and still smelled pretty good by June. However, they were starting to smell, so brides carried a bouquet of flowers to hide the body odor. Hence the custom today of carrying a bouquet when getting married.
Baths consisted of a big tub filled with hot water. The man of the house had the privilege of the nice clean water, then all the other sons and men, then the women and finally the children. Last of all the babies. By then the water was so dirty you could actually lose someone in it. Hence the saying, Don't throw the baby out with the Bath water.
Houses had thatched roofs-thick straw-piled high, with no wood underneath. It was the only place for animals to get warm, so all the cats and other small animals (mice, bugs) lived in the roof When it rained it became slippery and sometimes the animals would slip and fall off the roof.Hence the saying . It's raining cats and dogs.
There was nothing to stop things from falling into the house..This posed a real problem in the bed-room where bugs and other droppings could mess up your nice clean bed. Hence, a bed with big posts and a sheet hung over the top afforded some protection. That's how canopy beds came into existence.
The floor was dirt. Only the wealthy had something other than dirt. Hence the saying, Dirt poor. The wealthy had slate floors that would get slippery in the winter when wet, so they spread thresh (straw) on floor to help keep their footing. As the winter wore on, they added more thresh until, when you opened the door, it would all start slipping outside. A piece of wood was placed in the entranceway. Hence the saying a thresh hold.
(Getting quite an education, aren't you?)
In those old days, they cooked in the kitchen with a big kettle that always hung over the fire. Every day they lit the fire and added things to the pot. They ate mostly vegetables and did not get much meat. They would eat the stew for dinner, leaving left-overs in the pot to get cold overnight and then start over the next day. Sometimes stew had food in it that had been there for quite a while.Hence the rhyme, Peas porridge hot, peas porridge cold, peas porridge in the pot nine days old.
Sometimes they could obtain pork, which made them feel quite special. When visitors came over, they would hang up their bacon to show off. It was a sign of wealth that a man could, bring home the bacon. They would cut off a little to share with guests and would all sit around andchew the fat.
Those with money had plates made of pewter. Food with high acid content caused some of the lead to leach onto the food, causing lead poisoning death. This happened most often with tomatoes, so for the next 400 years or so, tomatoes were considered poisonous.
Bread was divided according to status. Workers got the burnt bottom of the loaf, the family got the middle, and guests got the top, or the upper crust.
Lead cups were used to drink ale or whisky. The combination would sometimes knock the imbibers out for a couple of days. Someone walking along the road would take them for dead and prepare them for burial. They were laid out on the kitchen table for a couple of days and the family would gather around and eat and drink and wait and see if they would wake up. Hence the custom of holding a wake.
England is old and small and the local folks started running out of places to bury people. So they would dig up coffins and would take the bones to a bone-house, and reuse the grave. When reopening these coffins, 1 out of 25 coffins were found to have scratch marks on the inside and they realized they had been burying people alive. So they would tie a string on the wrist of the corpse, lead it through the coffin and up through the ground and tie it to a bell. Someone would have to sit out in the graveyard all night (the graveyard shift.) to listen for the bell; thus, someone could be, saved by the bell or was considered a ..dead ringer.
And that's the truth...Now, whoever said History was boring ! ! !
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Thanks for that Jax. It was very interesting. Thank goodness for progression. I would hate not to have my daily bath and perish the thought of only one a year. My husband tells me that when he lived at home his father got the bath first then his mother followed by him and then his brother and that would have been in the sixties. Even worse was the fact that his father drove the train at the local pit which carried the coal. :o
We have a graveyard which has a headstone saying something like born once died twice. A woman had died, been buried and grave robbers came to dig up the grave and remove jewellery from the bodies. Unbeknown to them the woman was in a coma and when they cut her finger she woke up, they scarpered and she went home to the amazement of her husband.
Ellen xx
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Yes, thanks for that Jax, absolutely fascinating.
A lot of our sayings come from nautical terms. My Dad was a marine engineer and used to tell me what all the sayings meant. I've forgotten most of them...but here are a few...
Above Board - We use it to mean that everything is legal - Early trading ships would hide illegal cargo below deck and the legal cargo was on view on the deck above board.
In the Doldrums - We use this expression when we are depressed or sad. The Doldrums is the name of a place near the equator and is characterised by unstable trade winds. If a ship got caught there it would literally be stuck in the Doldrums for days.
Down the Hatch is a drinking expression and has it's origins in the cargo being lowered into the hatch for transport below deck.
We use many nautical terms in our conversation today and we are completely unaware of it.
Louise
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Thanks for all that info Jax. My mum was born in 1919 and the weekly bath was still a shared event. She was one of eight children (four boys and four girls). They used to bath on a monday night (clean undies for Tuesday morning and clean sheets for the monday night) in a tin bath in front of the fire. Dad would go first, followed by all the boys, then the girls and finally her mum.
How about the phrase "get down to the nitty gritty"? This goes back to the slave ships. When the ships docked the sailors were allowed their pick of the women slaves before they were sold off. The first men got the better slaves until it was down to the ones right in the bottom of the ship. They were riddled with disease and lice and nits plus being extremely dirty - hence Nitty and Gritty. Ever since I found out the meaning I have hated anyone using this phrase.
Taz xx
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An old lancashire saying was "put wood inth ole" (put the wood in the hole) meaning close the door.
Another one is "hey up" meaning look at that, i still say that one.
Tilly.x
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We have a history of 'sayings' then - 'born in a barn' - if someone didn't shut the door!
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Put the wood in the hole - we used to say that (Tyneside)
My mother's mother used to say " fools and bairns should see nowt half done" meaning someone foolish or a child would see something incomplete and assume it was wrong usually by interrupting. I find this saying applies more to men than fools or kids !
we sued to say "were you born in a field ?" when someone left a door open.
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Yep I meant billet-doux - didn't do any French language except in Ballet classes ;D
"He's not the sharpest knife in the drawer"
"If he were any sharper he would cut himself"
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;D
"He's a few sandwiches short of a picnic".
"He/she has got a few slates missing"
"not the sharpest tool in the box".
My Nanna who was a Scot used to say
"I'm between the devil and the deep blue sea"
She also maintained eating bread crusts would make your hair curl. ::)
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Carrots make you see in the dark
Do unto others .......
May kittens [with runny eyes born in April/May were often not good doers :'( ]
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Oooh yuk, I'll think twice before saying 'nitty gritty' again....
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It's amazing how many people use it all the time as it is part of our language somehow. Interesting to know where it originated though.
Taz x
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Well i"ll go t foot of our stairs, meaning i dont believe it, all my older relatives used to say that. ;D
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How about the word 'nesh', meaning to feel unusually cold?
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Thats a northern one isn't it. I had a friend from Sheffield who always said "It's reet nesh out there" reading here http://www.thepotteries.org/dialect_qa.html it seems to come from the anglo saxon word nescenes
Taz x
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I've not heard of nesh ! I'm in Tyneside. Geordies probably have a catalogue of our own ! ::)
If your feet itch - you are about to go somewhere you've not been before.
If your ears itch, someone is talking about you, left for love, right for spite.
If your palm itches - left to pay out, right to receive.
Drop a knife, a man will come to the house, a spoon - a child, a fork - a woman.
I know these are more like superstitions but I wonder if they are the same through the whole of the UK ?
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If someone sat in front of a fire, blocking the heat from other people, my uncle used to say "ye'd make a good bleezer" I assume this translates as blazier - an old fashioned fire screen.
It's 'nithering' - very cold.
'Skitey' meaning slippery or icy underfoot.
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Several years ago I heard someone describing a very sourfaced, miserable woman ... "she looks like she could p**s vinegar".
That's my all time favourite, because it described her perfectly! ;D ;D
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Looks like a bulldog has swallowd a wasp.
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My grandad used to say "i"ll sithey", meaning see you later, i love that saying, every time i think of him, i can see him saying that to me as i was leaving. Tilly. x
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Looks like a bulldog has swallowd a wasp.
My friend used to say "bulldog chewing a wasp"
and if someone wasn't keen on what they'd heard, "well, that went down like a cup of cold sick", sorry ! :-X
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went down like a lead balloon
as much use as a chocolate fire guard/teapot - love those!
Simon [who returned from the Falklands whose surname I forget :bang: :bang: :bang: ]once said in an interview that "MY Mam makes toast with her breath" ..........
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My fave -
"I might be daft, but I'm not stupid"
my friend at work used to say that.
:)
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I'm not as green as I'm cabbage looking
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Daft as well as stupid - usually we shout this at drivers who don't obey the Rules :bang: :bang: :bang:
I thoguht of another right then and now it's gone ::)
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Hi all
Mad as a box of frogs
Ha s somone changed you name to Jesus (if you left a door open )
My nannas favourite one was all fur coat and no knickers
Manypaws x
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Someone told me to 'stop swanking' yesterday ;D
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Oh CKLD
I love that saying reminds me of living in my home town Kirkham in Lancashire
:)
Manypaws
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'fair put out' meaning annoyed or upset.
Bramble
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when asked how old people are it's often said "I'm as old as my tongue but younger than my teefff "
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I use "mad as a box of frogs" all the time to describe my m-in-law but what does it actually mean???
My gran (Suffolk) used to say "ill a bed and worse up" ....
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I thought of 3 sayings last night, oh one was 'turn your money over' when a new moon appears ......
moon on it's back, fine day tomorrow
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My mum used to say "I'm not as green as I'm cabbage looking" ;D
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Up the dancers, ( up the stairs )
When i was a child my dad always said that to me when it was bedtime , i said it to my son, and now i say it to my grandaughter. Tilly. x
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I was interested in the origins of this Tilly but searching has only come up with the fact that dancers is used for stairs. I wondered how old it was because it may have something to do with Fred Astaire?
Taz x
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FinL used to say he was going 'Up to do his ironing' when he went to bed
Taz2 - that's a saying often said where we come from ;D
Or "I didn't get off the Ark yesterday"
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CLKD.....
Ive just spoke to my dad and he said his parents used to say it to him, he"s 69, and when i asked him where the saying came from he said he thought it came from Fred Astaire, so it looks like your research was right
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Tilly - it was Taz who wondered about the Fred Astaire connection ....... ;) ..... "up the wooden hill" was another, when people were too poor to afford carpet on the stairs ..........
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OOPS..... Sorry CLKD, and apologies Taz for not looking properly at who posted. ::) Tilly. x
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That's ok - am pleased that I got it right - I just thought that "stairs" linked to "dancers" must mean Fred Astaire.
Taz x :)
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Apparently 'going up to do the ironing' is an Army saying, when the men put their uniforms under the mattress at night 'cos they didn't have access to ironing fascilities
"If the cap fits, wear it"
Red hat, no drawers ::)
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I have a spot on my face, the type Mum would call a 'push' ??? :-\
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I thought of another saying on my way here ............ ::)
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I had an aunt who used to answer "up Chucks hole in America" when ever I would ask her where something was. :o
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:o 'up chucking' is sick isn't it in the States?
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A chuckhole is a pit or a hole in the street - maybe Trey can verify?
Taz x
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When my grandfather had a bad hand in cards (cribbage I think) he used to say "After the Lord Mayor's show comes the shit cart"!
My OH has a funny (Greek) saying that goes something like "Silk knickers are made for silk bottoms" which is a bit like "you can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear".
This is an interesting thread.
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I can remember my dad saying, "we will have to go on a Jew's course for a while" when we had overspent, not sure if it was an RAF saying, and I hope it is not thought a racist remark.
I have googled it but can't find any reference to it.
silverlady x
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Don't think Trey will be out of bed yet ::)
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Why - is she poorly?
Taz x
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I'll wipe that smile off your face (you will get a slap)
I'll take my hand off the side of your face (slap in the face)
You will be greeting before the nights oot (when you were having a carry on you will end up getting a slap)
Where there's muck there's money (make money from getting your hands dirty with working)
Hold your tongue (stop answering back)
:)
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Time difference? She is only five hours behind!! :na:
Taz x
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Country sayings;
If the Oak is out before the Ash we'll only get a splash (rain in the Summer!)
The Ash before the Oak then we'll surely get a soak.
My grans gardening saying; (don't plant out) til the sun shines on both sides of the hedges
If we were in a bad mood she used to say she could see a little black dog on our shoulder.
My Dad and Uncle used to say they were " going to see a man about a dog" if they didn't want to say where they were going - usually the pub!
and they were "going to water the horse" - go for a pee
Flyaway
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My Aussie friend told me a good one
"He's got a roo loose in the top paddock"
Interesting one on here earlier " between the devil and the deep blue sea", as when I was a child in South Africa, there was an identical Afrikaans expression that meant someone was drunk.
Amazing I remember that as don't speak Afrik any longer, although I do understand it.
When she gets a nice surprise, my 89 year old friend always says "oh my ears and whiskers" :)
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We use to say fur coat nae drawers ;D
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My nan always referred to the canal as the 'cut'. She used to say 'when I'm gone, jus' throw me int cut'. Needless to say we didn't!!!!
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we still call it the cut where I am...
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"You'll be laughing on the other side of your face" was one my mum used to say when I was "cheeky". lol
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woke up this morning to a beautiful red sky-
Red sky at night shepherds delight
Red sky in the morning shepherds warning!
Think we are in for some bad weather
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'Don't cast the clout til May is out!'( meaning don't go out without ypur coat until May has ended,whatever the weather)
'Charlies Dead'(which was said to the girl when you saw her slip was showing)
'Up the wooden hill"( meaning stairs,which was said to us as children when it was time for bed)
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'Ne'er cast a clout till May be out' refers to not taking off your winter vest until the may blossom flowers ('may' being another name for hawthorn - the small white flowers you see in hedges in late spring).
I love the origins of old sayings.
'Above board' (meaning honest) is thought to refer back to the middle-ages when a 'dining table' was simply a board resting on the diners' knees - an honest man kept his hands above the board.
'Turning the tables' is from a similar time, but in richer houses the table was a board placed on trestles - one side of the board was for everyday use, and was rough and damaged through use; the other side was smooth and only used for 'best' and to impress guests - 'turning the tables' and 'taking the rough with the smooth' both come from this practice.
'Worth his salt' dates to a time when salt was very valuable and people were paid in salt (literally, a 'salary') - so a man who worked hard was 'worth his salt'.
Back to the orginal post - my grandma used to say 'billy-doo' (pronounced that way) to mean a short note. It's no doubt a corruption of billet-deux.
A favourite weather saying in our family was always "it's a bit black over by Will's mother's" if there was a dark cloud looming! My grandma always used to say there was promise of the weather clearing up if there was enough blue sky to make a sailor a pair of trousers!
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"lays on my chest"
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very clever ;D
cast not a clout is true this week >:(
red hat no drawers :o
see we've had that 1 before ::)
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i was quite shocked, when my eldest daughter came round and said since the birth of her last child she had given up wearing pants lol. she said she found them uncomfy..... i must be getting old, but me and my pants are never going out without each other lol.
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cast not a clout is true this week >:(
now here is a question....nair cast a clout till mays out.....
mays what??? month of may? may blossom is out in bloom or may blossom is out (fallen)?
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Still waiting for "flaming June!" ;D ;D
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Jax - see top of page ;)
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"You'll be laughing on the other side of your face"! was one of mums if we ever DARED to back chat her. Lol
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"I wouldn't do that if I were you" …….. I got a right clout when I replied "Mum, I'm not you" :o I was about 11 ……..
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Funny i was only thinking last night what my dad used to say
'You can take a horse to water but you can't make him drink'
'This horse shouldn't be worked for a fortnight' - said with wine, beer, cider etc
'I'm going to water the rosebush'
'A wonderful bird is the pelican his beak can hold more than his belly can'
'There are no bones in beer'
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When I was small and my dad went out I'd ask him where he was going and he'd always reply " I'm going to see a man about a dog"
He never came home with one though :-\
If your slip/petticoat was showing my grandmother use to say,"Charlie's dead" And also this little rhyme " If you want to live and thrive let a spider run alive" whenever there was a spider.
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Yep we had all those in our family too ……..
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Hattie - here is the whole Pelican saying
A wonderful bird is the pelican.
His bill can hold more than his belican.
He can hold in his beak
Enough food for a week,
But I'm damned if I see how the helican.
Taz x
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Oh I must be old too - we said Charlie's dead at school - the days when girls wore petticoats (actually I don't think I did but other girls did!).
"I might as well be hung for a sheep as a lamb" - this is a weird one and was used in my young days to mean if you were going to do something - then do a bigger thing while you're at it - eg take a bigger risk or whatever, rather than punishment.
"Go the whole hog"
"Three sheets to the wind"
I still use expressions that my sons laugh at and say that's not an expression - but I can't remember them now!
Hurdity x
Afterthought - this is one they laughed at:
"It's the bees knees" - where on earth does that come from?
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Thanks Taz :)
My dad only ever used to quote the first line - i always took it to mean he was saying that i'd bitten off more than i could chew !! by the way he said it.
Hattie X
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I reckon that's what he meant Hattie!
Hurdity - does this help http://www.worldwidewords.org/qa/qa-bee1.htm and the sheep one goes back to the 1600s
" The origin lies in the brutal history of English law. At one time, a great many crimes automatically attracted the death penalty: you could be hanged, for example, for stealing goods worth more than a shilling. Sheep stealing was among these capital crimes. So if you were going to steal a sheep, you might as well take a full-grown one rather than a lamb, because the penalty was going to be the same either way.
Since the law was reformed in the 1820s to end the death penalty for the crime, the proverb must be older; in fact the earliest example known is from John Ray's English Proverbs of 1678: “As good be hang'd for an old sheep as a young lambâ€."
Taz x
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That's a saying in our family too
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Haha Thanks Taz!
Also interesting about the sheep - how far back it originated.
Hurdity x
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On the weather front, my old granny (born 1901) was a seamstress and she always used to tell my sister and I that there's going to be good weather coming if we could see enough blue sky to make "a pair of cats trousers" perhaps the cat accompanied the sailor on the boat.. ;)
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My mum's version was 'enough blue sky to make an elephant a pair of trousers'. Why anyone would want to do that is another matter.... ;D
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….. sailor's trousers ………..
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grasp the nettle
Exaggerate to Educate
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BUMP
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'trying to knit fog' - thanks GypsyRose!
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When we used to ask our mum what was for dinner she'd say "air pie and windy pudding"
Meaning we'd get nothing ! (She always did feed us though :-)) xx
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That brought back memories Annie0710 ;D ;D
When I used to ask my Mum - what was for dinner - having got home from school on a Monday.
Answer 1 - Airballs & Bubbles (bit like your Mums "air pie and windy pudding") meaning whatever is left over from the weekend - again meaning bugger all. ;)
Answer 2 - S**t with Sugar On.
S**t with Sugar On always seemed to be the better option. It was usually spam fritters, tinned tomatoes & Fried Potatoes.... them were the days ;D ;D
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Omg yes my mum used to say that too (sh@t and sugar !)
"You break your legs don't come running to me" as if that'd be possible lol
Xx
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;D
gubbins ...........
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Gubbins I've heard that before but don't know where from, will ask my sister tomorrow she may remember, love it though!
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Sparkle - "strike a light" may come from an old goon show sketch - well they used it in it anyway.
My mum used to say "drive me up the hat rack" - when we used to drive her mad
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My mom used to say,
Up the stairs to Bedfordshire.
Do today, what you might not be able to do tomorrow.......yeah, right! 😂😂
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Up the bed to do the ironing ........
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Up the wooden hill
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Billy Connolly always use to make fun of the saying “you'll be laughing on the other side of your faceâ€
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Hahaha yeah ‘ , it's black over bills mothers'
My Nan said that....forgot that one.....stellajane.
I'll be saying that now....😃
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I was confused: as a child I had an Uncle Bill but knew that his Mum didn't live in 'that' direction :-\
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😂😂😂
My dad used to say.......I'll tan your arse if you carry on....😂😂
I was a good girl I was......😄😃
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In Scotland (not sure if you've heard it in England) if you were naughty,you'd be told I'll take the back of my hand off your face lol
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No, I just had my arse tanned.....quite often.....😃😃
Another one is, ......I'll swing for him in a minute!....
Now, it's just, ......I'll knock him out! 😂😂😂😂😂
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We would be knocked into next week
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I'll swing for you has two meanings: one is that I will take a smack at you or, I will go to the gallows rather than let you get away with it
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Hahaha Robin...
Remember that one....😃
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Just remembered my Nan saying
“Worse things happen at sea,†........you know, when you've just been dumped by your 1st love,! oh, yeah Nan, who cares what happens at SEA!!!! 😂🤣😂🤣
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Yeah and there's plenty more fish in there jillydoll ;D
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I'll swing for you has two meanings: one is that I will take a smack at you or, I will go to the gallows rather than let you get away with it
Since when did it mean the former? Surely it only ever means the latter. The phrase meaning hitting is to take a swing AT someone, not swing FOR them which has always meant hanging - and could mean taking the blame for someone.
Haha I do remember hearing the phrase about knocking someone into the middle of next week - was it on a comedy progamme back in the day?
Hurdity x
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There certainly was aswell Robin......🤫🤫😂😂
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If anyone was playing up my grandmother used to say "you'll send me to Banstead", meaning "you'll drive me mad". There used to be a big mental hospital in Banstead. OH and I bought a house there in the 1980s, but the hospital had just about closed down as a result of the Care in the Community policy.
JP x
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Which was never going to work :bang: and of course Bedlam was the Mental Hospital often quoted. Or 'workhouse' ........
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Which was never going to work :bang: and of course Bedlam was the Mental Hospital often quoted. Or 'workhouse' ........
Too true, CLKD. Two prisons were built on the site afterwards. I knew one of the prison warders there and he commented that a lot of the inmates had mental health problems and shouldn't be in prison. So they'd ended up in Banstead anyway but under the wrong regime :bang:
JP x
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:'( breaks my heart. It is forgotten than relatives, carers, friends need supporting when someone has a mental illness. But putting them back to the parents etc. wasn't working, that's why sufferers required professional assistance :'(
Seeing a new members 'name' which ends in squelch reminds me that this particular word, for me, does what it says on the tin ;D : we probably have a word thread here somewhere :whist: and when I hear squelch I can smell muddy puddles :D
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Here it is ;D
'squelch' still does it for me :-*
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Good Scottish word for bored ........... scunnard
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;D. ....... how do the Scots pronounce that one then? With a lot of spittle ?
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My mother once referred to my mother in law as a "crepe hanger" and I never knew what she meant by that. Any ideas?
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Well was it at a 'certain' age? Crepe being folds of loose skin due to lack of oestrogen? Here it's known as 'chicken neck' ::). Hanger would mean something to store clothing in a cupboard ........
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My mum always used to say....what's for you,won't go by you :)
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I've just spent a lovely half hour reading this thread, reminded me of childhood visits to my nan and grandad. Nan would sometimes say "stop making such a fuss, a bit of pain never hurt anyone" and when grandad couldn't answer something he used to say "If in doubt, mumble"
When I was very young, we'd all be getting ready to go out, mum woud say "We're going to bury nana", and then we'd go visit a really old lady who was definitely still alive. What she meant was "we're going to visit my nana who lives in Bury"
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Haha love it befuddled,Bury Nana ;D
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Ahhh, that's why my OH always mumbles at me! 🤣😂
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:bouncing:
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Three can keep a secret.......if two of them are dead :o
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;D
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from my mum......Don't be as daft as you look.
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My mum always used to say....what's for you,won't go by you :)
My mum also used to say that ❤️
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My mum always used to say....what's for you,won't go by you :)
My mum also used to say that ❤️
🥹❣️
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Another mother one .......you're not as green as you're cabbage looking
What the heck does that even mean? I look like a cabbage?? ;D
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My dad used to say (when something not great, but not awful happened), 'it's better than being smackd in the face with a piece of wet fish'.
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Minusminnie that was a bit harsh from your mum! ;D
My dad always said White Rabbits on the first of each month. Now he's the I do so myself and think of him
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We do that: pinch punch, 1st of the month and no return : ;D
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Ring round the moon, fine day tomorrow 8)