Menopause Matters Forum
Menopause Discussion => All things menopause => Topic started by: honorsmum on February 12, 2015, 09:03:33 AM
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I'm in a perimenopause support group on FB, where the majority of members are American.
It makes very interesting (and slightly shocking) reading. Firstly, the large number of women who believe they are going through peri in their 30's. Secondly, the number who are on numerous antidepressant/sedative medications, and thirdly the overwhelming consensus that hormone treatment is not worth the risks and to be avoided at all costs.
It seems ironic that many of these women are struggling with addiction to various drugs for anxiety, pain etc that they have been prescribed to help deal with PMT and menstrual issues, many of them are going through ablations, hysterectomies, buying various drugs and "potions" online,BUT HRT is seen as something to avoid at all costs.
Is the HRT available in the US different from here, or is it just "sold" differently to women?
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Unfortunately the USA seems more risk adverse.
You just have to look newspapers and the alleged damage done to the dairy industry when they said butter, full fat milk etc was bad.
If you go round the supermarkets in the USA your bombarded by low or zero cholesterol everything. The butter tastes like oily watery stuff.
Thankfully I've stuck with the full fat genuine 100% butter over the warning years and its not done me any harm as the newspapers are now gladly chiming.
The same may have been done for the HRT industry by well meaning but ill judged trials on much older post menopausal ladies (~63 years old).
This may have left the a deeper fear legacy for HRT in the USA,
There are lots of similarities to the deeper and more fearful attitude to cholesterol also.
Had this not happened I wonder if we'd have been further advanced or have a better understanding of HRT in peri & meno would be. We may never know.
But for now, like my butter, I'll be continuing with my full fat HRT :)
:-*
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Interesting, peegeetip.
I wonder if, following on from your suggestion of outdated research on older women, doctors over there overstate the risks of HRT because of the law suit culture?
I just find it bizarre that a lot of the women are taking all sorts of other medications to try to curb meno symptoms, self-medicating etc but absolutely will not consider HRT.
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Bizarre is a good description (so is the butter) :D
I think your right on the law suit culture.
Its strange as there are risks to most drugs even ibuprofen ???
As discussed on other posts a lot of these non HRT self medication is totally uncontrolled in the same way true HRT is.
HRT is the same compounds as in the USA but with different brand names so no difference really.
In terms of the other serious items you see on their FB page:
"Firstly, the large number of women who believe they are going through peri in their 30's. Secondly, the number who are on numerous antidepressant/sedative medications, and thirdly the overwhelming consensus that hormone treatment is not worth the risks and to be avoided at all costs."
For peri symptoms for woman in their 30's, there is every chance of premature failure and possibly given their larger population your going to encounter more. There are so many factors to take into account but there could be a "me too" culture in terms of health issues there.
The AD and Sedative approach I find quite insidious. They are handed out like sweets from my own experience with little regard to the effects to those using them. I've experience within my family of being handed out these when the underlying cause was something really simple that a blood test would have picked up.
On the last item we do still see a lot of posts from people who's doctors are in that view and totally behind the curve on current information. Its a shame that there is not a standard or easy option people can take to alleviate this problem we all face from time to time.
:-*
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Also many people in the States are covered by Insurance ……… I wonder if this is significant in how they are treated generally? whereas those that can't afford Health Insurance may well rely on what they read are told particularly by companies who have a vested interest.
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Again, really interesting points.
I will admit, I did wonder how much of the posting is a "me too" attitude. I notice certain buzz words/symptoms that seem to be Jul ed on and repeated again and again.
I have had some experience of this myself, having questioned whether I had a possible thyroid issue, despite my tests coming back as "normal". On a thyroid site, I had everyone telling me that I needed to gave x, y,z tests (privately) because it certainly sounded like a thyroid issue. I got swept along for a short while, until I realised that a/ "normal" test results could actually be "normal" for many people (ie not inaccurate), and b/ my symptoms could also be anxiety or premenopausal, or even POTS, as someone tried to persuade me on a palpitations site.
It would be very easy to get swept up into believing you had a particular condition in some support groups, especially those whose members are already feeling emotionally vulnerable.
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Agreed. Which is why a Health Led Forum is important. I have been a member of several forums for different health conditions over the years ……… interesting to sit back and watch the various threads growing and the responses etc. given!
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One of our former members...Trey, who is from the USA has asked me to post this
I move house a great deal and have had at least six gynaes who have all said that they themselves would be on the patch until they died.
I have never been offered ADs.
I have never heard of any women being turned down for HRT or ERT. I am a registered nurse and have worked in hospitals and a medical office that dealt with prolapse surgery.
It is easy in the US to get hormones or hysterectomies or other gyn surgery. It is too often the patients' choice. Rarely would anyone chance internet meds as meds not difficult to get from personal physicians and also, most are covered by insurance.
We do not have waiting periods and yes, most are insured. BUT I think the waiting periods in UK and the more restrictive giving out of prescriptions are a good thing, in that many surgeries and loads of prescriptions are probably unnecessary, in the US.
The only restriction I've ever had was one gynae insisted on a mammogram before she'd refill my ERT. And in US annual mamms are paid for by Medicare and nearly all insurance. Although I'm concerned that mamms are a mixed blessing after a horrible biopsy experience.
Every woman my age that I know is on some form of replacement HRT. None are on ADs. ADs are not given as a first choice for meno symptoms here, to my knowledge. Of course, all of this is just from my professional and personal experience.
Honeyb
X
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:thankyou:
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Thanks for your response, Trey. Very interesting to read another side.
Maybe what I've read on the FB group is very reflective of the type of people it attracts - it is purely a social media support group, with no medical information attached, no references to clinical studies etc.
A very recent thread asked if anyone was going through peri without resorting to meds, and the vast majority replied that they were dealing with it using things like vitamins and supplements because of the risks of HRT.
Interestingly, responses to a post about dryness, painful sex etc never mentioned vaginal atrophy (until I mentioned it, having been enlightened here!) - It really is a different world in that group.
I suspect that maybe it's down to the demographic of the group, rather than being representative of the US as a whole.
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Oh one doesn't talk about lady bits ;) Stateside ……….. it's all posh there tha knows ::)
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I live in the U.S., and I have had no problem being prescribed HRT. I don't think it is our doctors who are so against it, as much as there are many women here who mistrust "big pharma" and prefer natural remedies.
I am not one of them, as I welcome any prescription that can help me through this rough time!
I was happy to find this forum, where everyone is not pushing herbal remedies, holistic medicine, etc., like so many on the US forums tend to do.
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:welcomemm: dixie63.
For the newer members Trey was with us for many years before leaving late last year.
I'm sure she wouldn't mind if I said that she was one of our older members and also an ex nurse with a lifetime of experience. She is now mid 70s.
It's really interesting to read her experiences that seem to be echoed by our new member Dixie.
Not sure who is posting on these forums honorsmum. Would be interesting to find out why they are saying what they are.
Honeyb
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Hi Dixie,
Interesting that you comment that many of the US sites push herbal remedies etc - that's exactly what my initial post was saying.
Honeyb, from what I can tell, the age range of the group I'm talking about seems to be from early 30's to late 40's - not many 50+ as far as I can tell. There is a lot of focus on oestrogen dominance, so a lot of talk of progesterone cream and seemingly a resulting avoidance of vagifem.
I have been back and re-read the post about whether members were taking medication for peri, and all 76 responses said they were intending to see it through on herbals/vitamins and things like meditation, exercise, diet and acupuncture (and anti anxiety meds!)
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Thanks for the warm welcome!
I was briefly a member of a Facebook menopause group myself, and the main suggestion I received was to eat ground flax seed and drink soy milk.
That may possibly help someone with mild symptoms, but no way it would begin to touch the severe symptoms I have had.
Needless to say, I left the group.
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I don't think it is our doctors who are so against it, as much as there are many women here who mistrust "big pharma" and prefer natural remedies.
I'm in the US and my mom, who is 65, is one of the natural remedy types and hasn't taken HRT. We haven't talked a lot about menopause (I suppose we should!) but it didn't seem like she ever had a hard time with meno symptoms. I think she would have told me if she did because she talks to me about health stuff all the time. I do remember her being upset that her doctor insisted on HRT, and because she didn't want it she changed doctors. I just told her today about the anxiety I feel and that I think it's due to perimenopausal hormone changes. She tried to tell me it was my thyroid.
I haven't been offered HRT for peri symptoms but I was offered anxiety medicine (which I didn't want). I tend to go along with my mom's holistic/natural approach to health in many situations, but I wouldn't refuse HRT. The more I read here the more I feel like I understand the benefits of it. I think many women in the US hear the risks, which are mainly in women over 60 if I understand correctly, and they don't pay attention to the fact that benefits outweigh risks in younger women.
And as far as butter goes, mom and I have always used genuine 100% full-fat butter. We feel that when it comes to food, natural is always better than man-made low-fat stuff :)
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Great to read your lovely post Rhubarb,
So good your mum has done well over the years with her approach (and your joint enjoyment of butter) :)
You summarize things very nicely and put forward a balanced and calm approach 8)
I have to laugh about the Thyroid diagnosis (someone did the same to me when I was in unknown peri wilderness). :D ;D
I think your not alone in being offered AD's instead of HRT out there. I've seen a close relative being offered AD's for something that turned out to be nothing to do with their nerves or anxiety.
Good that your making your own mind up.
Just recently some of the others on the forum found the following for HRT options in the USA:
http://www.menopausematters.co.uk/treatment-usa.php
Just adding it for your own reference should you need it (no hidden agenda) ::)
Hope things go well and tell your mum to keep enjoying the butter.
:-*
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Inteersting points - and just goes to confirm what I am always saying too - that the difference is due to the different healthcare system in US. This is why you get all these odd theories and websites, and then lo and behold there are products to buy for those presumably that do not have insurance - or who perhaps mistrust "Big Pharma" as has been said. Of course the mainstream US health system and organisations chimes with the NHS - eg the North American Menopause Society and does not advocate that women should only "eat ground flax seed and drink soy milk" during menopause - (even though I am sure there are some benefits of these!).
I am just so grateful that we have the NHS, despite all its faults, which is still free at the point of delivery (I think that's the right term?) and where we are not prey to all this aggressive marketing of health products. One of the disadvantages (I would say) of the internet is that we can now find out about all these theories and products - and buy them - that we wouldn't even know about or need! :)
Hurdity x
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'free at point of delivery' is debatable though :-\ ……….
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Interesting posts. 25 years ago my Mum (who is British) joined a group of mainly American ladies who were all in their 40s/50s. All the American ladies in this group were on some form of HRT. They talked as though all their friends and family in the USA all took HRT as a matter of course.
The group had their 25 years reunion recently and my Mum reported that all the American ladies looked SO MUCH younger than their British friends (none of who had taken HRT). I have seen the photos and I have to agree. The American ladies look like the daughters of my Mum and her British friends.
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American women have always embraced HRT starting with Premarin. Though an awful lot have had hysterectomies (far more then in the UK) . So probably there is a bigger compliance then there is here.
Most of the American Doctors who write books about hormones have also had hysterectomies too.
There are lots of women who use Compounding Pharmacies where the hormones are made up individually but just as many women use the same Pharmaceutical HRT as we do though under different names sometimes.
There is sisterhood of women who manage it in a natural way just like other women all over the world.
I don't think there is much difference in attitude, there is the same arguments and opinions as there is here.
Power-surge and hystersisters are very good US forums and discuss hormones just like we do and have their spats too :) just typical women like we all are.
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Thank you, peegeetip :) The HRT chart is helpful, I do want to understand my options better.
I did talk to my mom today and she confirmed that she felt lucky to have sailed through menopause fairly easily. For a short time while she felt some depression and anxiety she used St. John's Wort, suggested by the doctor she went to after the first one told her she had to take HRT or go elsewhere. Her hot flashes were tolerable too. Interestingly she mentioned the same thing GypsyRoseLee says about aging, that her only regret about not taking HRT was how fast her skin thinned and she got more old-looking. She did consider the compounding pharmacy bio-identical hormones (actress Suzanne Somers wrote a book and was always on television talking about it) but her insurance didn't cover it.
I talked to my friend today too. She's 49 and hasn't had a period for 6 months. A blood test confirmed she's in menopause, but she said for the 5 years or so that she felt perimenopause symptoms she was never offered HRT by her doctor. Completely opposite from the doctor my mom had 15-20 years ago. My friend was offered anxiety medication, however, and she chose to take it because she felt the anxiety was interfering with her teaching job.
Silverlady, my mother-in-law had a hysterectomy in her 40's and took Premarin for decades. I don't think she went off of it until she was diagnosed with Alzheimer's in her late 70's.
Hurdity, the NHS seems like a wonderful system, I would be grateful to have it too. My daughter takes epilepsy medication and I'm amazed to think that it would be free if we lived in the UK.
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I am in America. My experience is limited to my own doctor, but I can say for sure he hands out anti-anxiety meds a quick as he can. When I asked about HRT he said, "only if the symptoms are driving you nuts."
My ob/gyn said benefits of HRT generally outweigh risks up til age 60, so she was very helpful about Hrt. She gave me Estrace cream too for vaginal dryness.
On the whole, it seems America is very put off by HRT. It was here we did the big work on the Women's Health Initiatvei that cabaoshed HRT in 2002. However since there are are other studies such as the KEEPS study that show better results for HRT.
Seems like everyone here is on anti-anxiety or AD meds. I question the wisdom of this....