Menopause Matters Forum
Menopause Discussion => All things menopause => Topic started by: karin on October 12, 2014, 11:30:11 PM
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Hello
Ive been on hrt combined patches for 3 months but after much thought Im going to come off them for a while and reconsider. Can anyone suggest any other therapies/ meds that might in any way be helpful for when my flushes surely return!! Thank you there are so many products on the market
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Hi Karin
I take sage capsules and it seems to help
Libby
x
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There are so many products you could try, but different things help different people. Why not buy a book first, which will guide you in the right direction. Here two:-
The New Natural Alternatives to HRT by Marilyn Glenville (I have this one) and
Natural Solutions to the Menopause, also by Marilyn Glenville
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Why are you coming off HRT?
Mine doesn't work and I am going to the GP to get another sort.
I hate the flushes and the added anxiety and depression.
I tried menopace which worked for about a week
I tried magnesium which worked for a couple of weeks
I've had a ladycare magnet in my knickers contintually (barring shower) for a fortnight and it isnt working, yet, your'e supposed to give it three months so I will leave it where it is.
I've tried varoius supplements, but I think that nothing works as well as hrt.
That's just my view and I am open to changing it if anyone comes along who has had long term success with alternatives to HRT.
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Hi Karin
You don't say why you want to abandon the HRT patches? Are you getting side effects? If so what side effects? Are you frightened of possible cancer risks?
I am not on HRT at the moment but after a year without full HRT I am really struggling with sleep and atrophy symptoms so really considering going back on HRT. BTW I'm 58.
In the past I have spent a fortune on herbs and remedies with no success. Some ladies who have very mild symptoms seem to do well with herbs etc. I have seriously upped my intake of soya and other isoflavines (phytoestrogens) plus Red Clover supplements but I actually think my flushes etc. have been worse!!!! I am trying melatonin to help with my constant waking in the night but that doesn't seem to help either.
I think if you can keep to a healthy diet, do plenty of power walking alongside plenty of rest, avoid stress, wear natural fibres in layers - these are the strategies that have kept me going through the last year. Unfortunately my meno symptoms are becoming more bothersome - the heat this summer was torture.
The only thing I haven't tried is acupuncture which I believe many women find helpful but you need to find a good practitioner.
Sadly HRT is really the only natural remedy for menopausal symptoms.
DGx
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If alternatives were helpful they would be on the NHS ;)
If you stop taking your HRT then you will see how much/not it has helped thus far. Let us know!
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Thank you all. I have suddenly lost a considerable amount of hair and and am close to having uncover-able bald patches, the oestrogen 2 weeks are lovely but the oestrogen/progesterone are not, I'm getting terrible pmt symptoms which i didn't have before, I've put on weight too. I think i want to take stock, i know i can go back if needs be.
I know the chemist options don't really touch the sides but was interested if some products may help even a little bit,?
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Hi,
I know a lot of posters on this site haven't found it helpful but I do seem to be having good results with red clover - for most of this year. It definitely seems to do something as when I don't take it daily the flushes come back and they are quite frequent; when I go back on it they seem to fade in quantity and intensity over a few days and then pretty much stop. So - at least worth a try? I've had promensil and menopace's version of red clover and they both seem to have some effectiveness. I'm not against HRT at all by the way and if/when the phytoestrogen route stops working I am definitely prepared to try it.
Hope this is of interest. I've also recently got a free sample of the blackcurrant concentrate (curranz?)I saw in the MM advertising spots by the way - think this is still available to ask for. You get a 'hot ladies' form to fill in. They sounded good and won't do any harm. I'm all for trying things finances permitting!
Starfish X
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Thank you all xxx
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Thank you all xxx
Why not try a different hrt.
IT sounds like you are having a reaction to th the progestin in your current hrt.
Lots of women cannot tolerate norehisterone, a synthetic progestin.
There is utrogestan, for some reason, i'm having some trouble with getting prescribed it, some doctors say they don't prescribe it in certain areas, but its cheap to buy anyway.
Try estradot and utrogestan as utrogestan is much more well tolerated by women.
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The title of this thread is "Ladies not on HRT"
There must be millions of women not on HRT and healthy and well, its a shame that some of them don't post on MM, a lot of women who are members I am sure would post if they thought they would be taken seriously talking about how they were doing not using HRT, with whatever regime they had if any, without being told the perils in store if they don't embrace HRT.
Even worse being told what they use is a nonsense, just a placebo effect and HRT is the thing!
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Well said silverlady. Around 80% of women who start HRT abandon it within 1 year. That speaks for itself. Not everyone wants to take HRT. The menopause is not an illness and the over medication today is a serious worry. There are plenty of natural holistic methods, some of which women have used for 100's of years. Early meno and hysterectomy are one thing. Medicating all women for a natural stage of life is another. What next the medication of puberty.
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Even worse being told what they uses is a nonsense and just a placebo effect and HRT is the thing!
The main point about any alternative remedies - if women are casting around for something to use - is to have an objective measure of whether or not it works.
As I have explained before - no amount of personal testimonies will tell you whether a product is worth buying or not or has a track record for being helpful in treating menopausal symptoms.
The only way this is determined is through randomised placebo controlled trials - because yes, the placebo effect is very powerful (not to deny this can be helpful), and also important is that you do not know whether the changes you experience as an individual would have happened anyway.
The whole of medicine is based on this. We take aspirin or paracetamol for headaches because trials have shown objectively that these drugs are effective.
I am sure the OP is interested to know what has been shown to be effective - otherwise anyone will just post - well try Black Cohosh, try this, try that etc, and end up spending a fortune on products whose safety has not been tested, or whose efficacy is in question, and just end up making money for the companies that produce them.
There are products I understand that may look promising and I think trials are being carried out through the recognised research channels.
As CLKD said earlier - sadly, if many of these products were effective they would be available on NHS.
However there are many self help methods I am sure which are helpful to women experiencing flushes and sweats.
Replacing deficient hormones is not administering medication especially with bio-identical hormones like I use!! Natural it may be, and although menopause itself is not an illness, oestrogen deficiency is associated with some serious health problems and when we may spend a third of our life and more in this state it is wise to consider the health implications. Diabetes is also natural - but no-one thinks twice about replacing insulin.
karin - I sincerely wish you well but I would hate to think of you spending large amounts of money on products and alternative remedies to no avail!
Hurdity x
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The above post only emphasises what I have said!!!
We certainly won't be getting any posts from Ladies not on HRT now and doing well.
Not everyone develops Diabetes but every women who has ever lived and reached middle age goes through menopause.
A lot of women go through menopause with not to much problem, and there is an awful lot of women hale and hearty who live well into old age. It would be good to hear from them.
I do hope this has not put off women not on HRT posting. There should be room on MM for all women taking HRT, alternatives or nothing at all , and for any other experiences of menopause all valued.
Just a thought why has the NHS not declared that it is mandatory for every woman going through menopause to be prescribed HRT following the stated argument.
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Hello ladies ;)
I have aches, pains, mood swings, hot sweats at night....you name it I've got it! Ive resisted HRT instead I throw myself into work, mountain bike 15 miles every day and try to eat healthy although I do like a glass of red wine before dinner. I don't know if I will ever take HRT, my GP isn't really enthusiastic ???
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Very interesting! obvious" for and against" camps on here!
I will have to say that up until this point I hadn't tried any of the alternatives available, I just exercise, eat well and carried an aerosol water spray everywhere!
I decided upon hrt because of working , had I not had to consider work I probably would have continued without for the time being anyway. I don't want to swallow a tablet and I don't feel comfortable using them as pessaries without my GP blessing. neither do I want to go bald. so im decided to stop and do a bit of mindful watch and wait. I m quite aware that alternatives don't really seem to deliver and seem to only benefit the manufacturer, but I asked the question, because there are surely strategies we can all learn from each other. I am probably going to be back on this site saying that I've resumed hrt at some point, because the oestrogen part is certainly marvellous, and I can only thank you all for your helpfulness and support when asked
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Hi karin
Yes, this thread has thrown up some diverse opinions. I agree HRT isn't right for everyone but I think many of us on this site crave a better response from the medical profession to our needs during this often challenging time of our lives.
I believe women often abandon HRT simply because they were prescribed an HRT treatment that didn't suit them and then felt 'that was that' as GPs are often so ambivalent towards HRT in the first place. These women probably suffer for many years in the belief that there is nothing that can help them. Our GPs are not specialist in this treatment and if this approach was applied to the contraceptive pill very few ladies would take 'The Pill'. My daughter has tried so many different contraceptive pills with varying success but the clinic was determined to find something that suited her - she is now using 'The Ring' which she finds great to use and she has no adverse side effects. For those ladies who are suffering bad meno symptoms we want and need to have this more rigorous and tailored approach.
I think we would all welcome some better alternatives to HRT as well. There are many ladies out there who cannot take HRT due to other health issues - they shouldn't suffer either. Some clear guidelines from NHS doctors about what herbs, remedies etc. could be of benefit is necessary and these should be on prescription to stop the exploitation by companies out to make an easy profit.
I know 3 ladies who have sailed through their menopause with barely a single flush so haven't needed to even consider HRT - each of them have either had or are going through breast cancer treatment. I personally don't think any of us can avoid the negative effects of 'The Change' - it certainly heralds a decline in many of our bodily functions - it just effects some more that others and the negative effects may well be written in our genes.
What this site does is give us so much great information and the opportunity to share experiences and knowledge - what is needed is better education for every women so we know what to expect and then have a better understanding of how to deal with it. We need the medical profession to support and guide us through the meno - whether we choose to use HRT or not, the options should be there.
DG x
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Karin I don't think there are for or against camps, per se, what I was trying to get cross is that all women should be heard whether they take HRT or not and their choices respected.
If they find something in a health store or even online and it works for them they should not be shot down.
Likewise if HRT works well for a woman that's good too.
The last thing a woman wants is to be lectured if its not approved by NICE or the NHS.
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Love to know where you get FREE meds from the doctor. I usually pay around the same as the prescription charge for my supplements and vits.
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I agree with you Silverlady, some of us just can't take HRT and if we can find something else that works then why not mention it on here as it might help someone else who is struggling. Similarly if HRT does work then that is also useful to know as there seem to be so many different preparations to choose from. We are all in the same boat at this time in our lives and any help is welcome.
Thorntrees
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Please note that since a recent law change ALL herbal remedies sold in the uk have to be certified. They are no more dangerous than prescription medicines. Both can cause problems as well as be helpful. Most women who use alternatives only do so when needed and not for years at a time as with HRT.
As for trusting the pharmaceutical companies to get it right I'd sooner trust a banker.
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Steady on rosebud my OH was a Banker ;D but I do agree with what you have said.
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Karin I don't think there are for or against camps, per se, what I was trying to get cross is that all women should be heard whether they take HRT or not and their choices respected.
If they find something in a health store or even online and it works for them they should not be shot down.
Likewise if HRT works well for a woman that's good too.
The last thing a woman wants is to be lectured if its not approved by NICE or the NHS.
Thank you these words and your other supportive words on this thread Silverlady. There are many voices on this forum who advocate HRT and rubbish the alternatives. The premise being that "your menopausal symptoms can't be that bad otherwise you'd take HRT".
I am not able to take HRT, I have no choice but to 'put up with' menopausal symptoms. I am not anti-HRT per se, if it works - great, but I also would ask for respect for the choices that women make on this subject.
To take one case in point ..... "You need HRT to protect your bones" is something I've often read on here. I am 52, have taken a potent aromatase inhibitor for nearly 5 years and have had no ovaries for 3.5 years ... I have just returned from a hospital appointment at which I've been told that my bone density is at a significantly better level than women in my age category. Maybe I'm the exception that proves the rule but, playing devil's advocate here, I could argue what's the point of taking HRT to protect bone density when keeping active, doing weight-bearing exercise, eating a varied healthy diet, keeping to a healthy BMI appears to do the job?
Karin - I wish you luck with whatever you decide and I hope you receive some useful suggestions from ladies who have successfully dealt with symptoms in different ways. For what it's worth I'd recommend investing in a Chillow.
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My periods became less and less from late 1990s and by the time my dog was pts in 2002 I realised I hadn't seen a period for months. I was already on anti-depressant medications and a betablocka for anxiety and had taken in the early 1990s, Valium as necessary. So had been given chemical support before perimenopause so coped differently to ladies whose peri time came as a shock.
I use a vaginal preparation 2 x 7 to stop the effects of atrophy. Otherwise I use nothing else for symptoms, other than pain relief as necessary i.e. Nurofen; which I also take for restless legs which can be troublesome at night.
Initially I had cold flushes down my back - when I was taking drugs following cancer treatment in 1992. As I aged and within 10 mins of taking the above medication I would get hot sweats after my bath and itching across my back and shoulders which went on for months ::). DH and I eat regularly and he cooks healthy meals. We exercise as and when. My mental health is on the whole under control so I can remain rational ………… I am aware of what is available should I require it and fortunately have a good working relationship with my GP so don't expect asking for medical support to become a problem.
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Karin, Hi,
If you go onto either Boots website or Holland and Barratt, under their 'menopause' products, or Vit Supplements, they all have reviews next to them from customers (some good, some bad), but there are a few who are swearing by some of them, so you could have a look there. I'm like you, but have never had HRT and am interested in trying something alternative in the first instance. I really think it will be trial and error and all these things take a fair bit of time to work. It' s a quick fix we all dream about but it doesn't exist! A good multi vitamin with a collagen supplement may be beneficial for healthy hair.
Take care
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I have friends who have not used HRT as their symptoms only lasted a year or less and then they were fine, suspect if you are one of these ladies then one possibly thinks the herbs etc do help when actually your body is adjusting better than others. My symptoms were debilitating and after months of herbal remedies went to get the dreaded HRT which has been a life saver. Was basically sorted in 3 days and what a relief. Have a business to run so no time for health issues. I doubt many ladies who dont suffer symptoms come onto this website as actually what would draw them here other than a mild curiosity. I have friends who barely noticed the changes and wonder what all the fuss is about . We should all take lots of excercise , keep our weight down and watch our alchohol intake - sometimes more easily said than done!! :P
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Hello Winterose, You must understand that the decision not to take HRT is much more than just severity of symptoms. To put everyone who does not take HRT into one group as 'can't be suffering much or they would take it' is very unfair. I would not presume to judge what anyone is experiencing or their choice of how to deal with it. As far as I am concerned (and many others) the downside to HRT is not worth the risk, but that does not mean I suffer any less.
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Oh Rosebud - no offence intended , perhaps my tolerance is a lot less than yours and all the others with symptoms who dont take it, I am on estrogen only so that helps with the health worries and bio identical, so risk is very low with all other parameters in good order.Excellent health, good blood pressure, good weight and very little alcohol. I lost so much sleep that I nearly crashed my car, so better to be on Hrt and normal than off it and not. Could have gone down the anti depressants route but felt if body was desperate for estrogen and the risks for me were less than a glass of wine a day then it seemed good choice - and choice is what we have but still think if you were reduced to blithering wreck you might have been persuaded. ::)
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Was reduced to a blithering wreck after a year without a full nights sleep. Went on prozac for 6 months (something I never, ever thought I would do). However six months on prozac for me was far better than 'years' of HRT.
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For what it is worth here is my 2 pennyworth. I chose not to take HRT with the thought that if my quality of life became intolerable I could always try it.
At the start of my menopause I suffered with insomnia, hot flushes and vaginal atrophy. I have always used St John's Wort as I reacted badly to SSRIs and SJW keeps my mood on an even keel so that was not too bad. But SJW has to be used carefully as it can interact with other medications but it works for me.
I have a very open minded lady doctor who listened to me a lot (highly recommend that if you can get one) and she introduced me to Ovestin and later Vagifem and Gynest cream for the vaginal atrophy. Perhaps that could be referred to as HRT but I did not take full HRT and that was my choice.
For my hot flushes I used a fan and a Magicool spray, I had about 18 months when they bothered me but just this year have become milder and less frequent.
The insomnia was nasty and I was almost on the point of asking for sleeping medication when, after about 9 months of it, it started to improve.
Do you know the one thing I found to really help during all this? Reading threads and posts on this forum helped after my doctor told me about it (I did not register for another 2 years). It told me that what I was experiencing was not unusual and there were options if and when I wanted them but I never got to that point of not being able to cope. Perhaps I am one of the lucky ones. I am not out of it yet but I have moved on and it is not so bad now.
I would say finding out all you can about it all (thank you MM) helps too
Oh yes, and a supportive, patient partner/husband really helps if you have one :)
If this sounds trite and simplistic I apologise but as silverlady said, the thread is about ladies who don't use HRT and I am one of those.
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A lovely honest post babyjane, thank you x
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I just told it like it is for me silverlady.
Perhaps I should have said that, having had a hysterectomy I was not bothered by all the bleeding and erratic cycle troubles, that might have made a difference to my experience, I will never know.
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Before I was married I asked for The Pill - my GP asked "how would you feel if I were a Catholic and refused to prescribe it?" well red rag to a bull >:( "A GP should never allow his/her personal preference to interfere with his job". I was 17 ;) I also told him that I would go to a Clinic if he refused.
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Stelajane its not just menopause and treatment that doctors even in the same practice don't agree on, most doctors have there own way of treating their patients whatever the health problem.
Not sure what can be done about it, I do know in our practice there are a few favourite doctors who seem to get the most patients.
But at least on MM we can support whatever women choose to do to get through their menopause, as you have said.
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Many GP Surgeries have a Patient Forum
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Hi
I am not on HRT after being taken off it by doctors after ovary removal. It's now 10 weeks after the operation
and I take ad's, Vitamin B complex, Sage capsules, Star flower and Vitamin E. I have hot flushes but just work through them a few aches and pains. I have been offered HRT again but the doc looks at me strange when I say no thanks it's OK I will just continue with the vitamin's they can't understand why I want to pump myself full of
vitamins which are not medically approved when HRT is. I said well it's my choice I won't rule it out completely
just in case one day I really need to take it again.
Winnie
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that sounds sensible winnie, you know your own body best.
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Today is World Menopause Day and a link to the recent paper written by the International Menopause Society was put up by the administrator of this forum.
The paper is entitled "Prevention of diseases after menopause"
http://www.imsociety.org/downloads/world_menopause_day_2014/white_paper/wmd_white_paper_english.pdf
Here is the abstract:
Women may expect to spend more than a third of their lives after menopause. Beginning in the sixth decade, many chronic diseases will begin to emerge, which will affect both the quality and quantity of a woman's life. Thus, the onset of menopause heralds an opportunity for prevention strategies to improve the quality of life and enhance longevity. Obesity, metabolic syndrome and diabetes, cardiovascular disease, osteoporosis and osteoarthritis, cognitive decline, dementia and depression, and cancer are the major diseases of concern. Prevention strategies at menopause have to begin with screening and careful assessment for risk factors, which should also include molecular and genetic diagnostics, as these become available. Identification of certain risks will then allow directed therapy.
Evidence based prevention for the diseases noted above include lifestyle management, cessation of smoking, curtailing excessive alcohol consumption, a healthy diet and moderate exercise, as well as mentally stimulating activities. Although the most recent publications from the follow up studies of the Women's Health Initiative do not recommend menopause hormonal therapy as a prevention strategy, these conclusions may not be fully valid for midlife women, on the basis of the existing data. For healthy women aged 50-59 years, estrogen therapy decreases coronary heart disease and all cause mortality; this interpretation is entirely consistent with results from other randomized, controlled trials and observational studies. Thus, as part of a comprehensive strategy to prevent chronic disease after menopause, menopausal hormone therapy, particularly estrogen therapy may be considered as part of the armamentarium.
I would urge everyone to read it.
For me one of the striking conclusions is that current evidence shows "For healthy women aged 50-59 years, estrogen therapy decreases coronary heart disease and all cause mortality".
I hope this puts the discussions into perspective and I sympathise with anyone who is unable to take HRT for medical reasons.
Hurdity x
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Unfortunately all the contributors, bar one, are now or have been in the past, been employed/paid for services by pharmaceutical companies.
This report, although interesting is not impartial. Big pinch of salt needed.
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Once again this thread was suppose to be about women not on HRT (giving them a voice) for what ever reason.
Not to be made to feel that their choices are the wrong ones!
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Once again this thread was suppose to be about women not on HRT (giving them a voice) for what ever reason.
Not to be made to feel that their choices are the wrong ones!
I'm really getting very tired of being told what threads I can and cannot post on, and what I am allowed to say - this is an open forum and such comments serve no purpose but to cause upset and argument. I intend that my posts are informative and helpful to the best of my ability, just as I hope we all do. I will not be intimidated by you or anyone into not contributing where I feel I have something to say.
Hurdity x
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The issue I find difficult to resolve with GPs is - why don't they listen to women who really do require HRT ? So far, fortunately I have been OK with only the odd addition to my vagina due to atrophy and I know I AM fortunate when I read here how other ladies suffer. I think quality is important so if ladies are able to feel well enough to 'do without' then go for it!
I think many ladies who do not require HRT wouldn't think about ifs and buts because they are managing Life without. There is so much 'trial and error' with medications and each of us is 'different' …..
I know my Mum had crashing fatigue but I don't think she had anything for symptoms, she's nearly 88 and can't remember ::)
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Going back to the start: Karin asked if any of us has found alternatives of any use. Good diet; exercise; laughter (when possible ;) ); treats, i.e. bubble baths; making time for relaxation ……… these have helped me in various ways with the additions as stated above.
Alternatives are rarely offered on the NHS ……… for lots of reasons!
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"I hope this puts the discussions into perspective and I sympathise with anyone who is unable to take HRT for medical reasons."
As far as I can see nothing on this thread needed to be put in perspective! its just women posting (and hopefully being allowed to) about how they get by without HRT! and making suggestions for Karin.
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Hurdity, I for one NEVER post on threads where the ladies discuss their HRT use/problems. One because as a non HRT user it would be arrogant of me to do so. Two, because they don't interest me, and lastly because It's not my place to say you should not take HRT.
Perhaps you should stop trying to persuade us non takers that HRT should be taken, even if we don't want to.
It's call good manners.
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I too thought the thread was about those who are not on HRT. There are many reasons why individuals look for alternative ways of coping with menopause symptoms and they may not want to explain or discuss those reasons on this forum but would still like to share their experiences. Everyone is entitled to their view of course and surely we are all trying to find the best way possible through this time in our lives given our own particular set of circumstances. If there was one foolproof solution that helped everyone there would be no need for this forum. I'm grateful for any help and ideas that might be of benefit as I'm not on HRT. I wouldn't comment on HRT as I have no personal experience of it ,for those who use it I'm just glad it works for them
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As an aside - if 'alternative' remedies worked then I'm sure some pharmaceutical company would synthesise what ever works ;) ………
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Might be safer to post on the "Tell us how you cope without HRT" forum.
I have used an estrogen patch and I make no apologies for using Natural Progesterone Cream now and then, another subject that seems to cause an outcry, along with supplements.
I do defend the right for all women who post and those who only read them, to be be able to talk about whatever they use, and how they get through menopause and beyond.
MM is not just for women who use HRT but I know that quite a few women in the past have left MM because they feel that that it is and they don't feel they belong.
This an open forum as has been pointed out, but using discretion keeps it a happy one.
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Pharmaceutical companies are all about profit. There is no profit in producing something that's already out there. They could not get 'exclusive rights' which is where the money is. They make the most money from producing for chronic conditions that result in long term use. If the menopause could be sorted with a one dose pill, do you think they would bother to produce it ?????????????
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But they do, i.e. Aspirin ::) ……. taken from willow bark. Of course not everything they produced would suit everyone ………
We had a 'witch' in our village :o - I suspect in hindsight that she used herbs …… I used to creep by her shabby bungalow quietly in case: I remember Mum dashing me over there when I fell, hitting my head badly ……… I remember begin scared and don't remember what she used, only that I had to lay on the settee for the remainder of the day ……….
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No money in aspirin as it has been out of patient for decades. It is now what is called a generic medicine and is produced and sold at low cost.
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Yep. That's all the Research done on aspirin. Happens with most meds eventually ::) ………
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All very interesting thank you, i must say that had i had a better experience with progesterone i would have tried the patches for longer as i personally found the oestrogen part excellent -work, sleep and quality of life improved tremendously and if there was a way to safely increase my oestrogen in any way without having to also take progesterone, i would certainly do it ( any thoughts??)
However i guess i have lost at least 40% of my hair and it present dont want to gamble with the remaining, ive got my magicool out and have started starflower and will let you know how well ( or badly) it goes! Please do leave your ideas and thoughts xxx
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Lots of ladies suffer with progesterone :'( :-\ …….. have you looked at the NAPS web-site? I had a lot of help from them when I had dreadful PMT …….
Let us know how you get on! Evening primrose oil was suggested for several years to ease symptoms.
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You could take a Q10 supplement, which amongst other things, is supposed to help hair loss. Helped me loads with fatigue and muscle ache as well.
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Most drugs used by the pharmaceutical industry were originally medicinal plants, in fact they employ and starting put money into people trying to discover new cures from eg rain forests, then synthesised in the lab.
http://www.projectcensored.org/22-there-may-be-a-cure-up-there-in-the-rain-forest/
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:thankyou: 8) we are Mine of info on here ………. not that I'm offering to go into the Jungle you understand
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Nothing wrong in being a Hedge Witch CLKD either, there are many many of them still.
"A Hedge Witch does not belong to a coven. She does not follow the tenets of any sect or organized religion. Her craft is her own - usually handed down to her by family and honed by her own experience and research"
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Hurdity, I for one NEVER post on threads where the ladies discuss their HRT use/problems. One because as a non HRT user it would be arrogant of me to do so. Two, because they don't interest me, and lastly because It's not my place to say you should not take HRT.
Perhaps you should stop trying to persuade us non takers that HRT should be taken, even if we don't want to.
It's call good manners.
I am getting extremely upset by all these personal attacks which have no place on this forum, and especially at being told I am bad mannered which I do try not to be. :'(
All I am doing in an a way that is as objective as I can be I hope, is to provide any information I have found, which has a bearing on the subject being discussed . There are real people behind these posts, with feelings. :( . I don't think I can take this any more
Hurdity
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Hurdity - the written word is static ……… try not to be too hurt :-\
"Isis, Istate, Diana, Hegaty, Dimita, Karli, Ianna " ………. sorry about spelling ::)
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Hurdity, in my opinion you are a very valued member on this forum so please don't even think about going anywhere.
Please don't be upset :hug: (http://:hug:) PN x x
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CLKD - please translate?
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Starting a new thread ;)
I bumped the thread from 200andsomething way back ::) …….
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Marilyn Glenville is a nutritionist who has written books on the natural way to deal with the menopause. I have already mentioned her books in this post but her website is www.marilynglenville.com. Interesting site with other health topics including weight gain, if anyone is interested.
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:thankyou:
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CLKD has bumped up "One life, live it, celebrate it" the thread is "Wise Woman Status" I have forgotten all about it, its very interesting.
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:thankyou: dragged it out of the archives a bit ::) - shows how strong women have needed to be over the Centuries ……..
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I tried all the alternatives first then went onto HRT. I think that's a pretty common experience. I was 52 before I started developing symptoms which were affecting my quality of life. I had hoped to be the type to sail through but that wasn't to be the case!
Frankly I couldn't care less what the next woman takes or doesn't take as long as it suits her. MY main gripe is about the inconsistency in NHS provision across the country and the fact that GPs in the same group practice sometimes don't even sing from the same hymn sheet. Your GP should be on your side however you choose to get through your menopause. It shouldn't have to become a battle.
No it shouldn't and I don't even know why it is.Ego's?
Whatever it is, it's silly, women should be offered the hormones they need to re-blossom and thrive as a full rich mature woman, rather than a frail shrivelled and miserable old bag.
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Dandelion, I'm not on HRT and I'm not 'a frail shrivelled and miserable old bag'.
Most women don't take HRT but unfortunately they have to suffer total lack of respect for their choice by those that do.
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I know a lot of women who don't take HRT and none of them could ever be considered to be frail, shriveled or miserable and certainly not old bags.
If that was suggested to them a lynch mob would be out.
I have never understood why there is such an attitude on the forum over the women who do and the women who don't.
Surely we are all entitled to voice opinions and learn from each other without it getting personal in any way.
I do take HRT, but wish I didn't. I will stop at some point and the experience of those women who have chosen not to will be gratefully received.
Let's just respect everyone's choice without any need for unkind comments.
We do not want to drive anyone away from the forum because they think they will be criticised for their opinions.
Honeyb
x
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Well said Honeybun, I agree with you completely
Thorntrees
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Ditto.
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I am 50, have been peri for a few years and am not on HRT. Up until recently I was adamnant I would not take hrt due to having tried it and various pills for period problems years ago which sent me over the edge. I eat healthily, exercise 3/4 times a week, try and not allow myself to get overstressed about life - not easy sometimes!! However, having been on this site for the last couple of years and reading all the posts, I have come to realise that the time may come when I have to give hrt a go. For me it will be a massive challenge - my quality of life and even life itself could be more compromised by hrt (I used to get suicidal with the extreme swings in hormone balance even with pill/hrt) whereas for the last few years I have been more settled. But I may have to consider the current quality or not of my life and which gives me the best outlook as other symptoms of Menopause kick in more severely. I appreciate hearing all views for and against. For some it is an easy choice - may be you are lucky in that. For others it is just not so straight forward.
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Well said HB.
I do think we should have a thread entitled "Women who choose not to take HRT" that way there would be no misunderstandings.
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I agree with honeybun and rosebud and I was getting a bit unsure about continuing to contribute to this thread but I want to respond to cherylks.
I have also tried things in the past, including ADs and some HRT and they did not suit me, made me feel worse, upset my thyroid balance and didn't help with the problem. So I developed the attitude that I could if I felt I needed to and started to take a few days at a time and coped as I have outlined in a previous post. I am more settled without it as my thyroid levels are a bit unstable anyway and that is enough to cope with.
However I always have the thought in the back of my mind that I could if things got unbearable but just when I find things becoming troublesome (last night I sweated for England all night) it usually starts to ease off (hadn't sweated for a few weeks before last night).
From reading posts in other threads it doesn't seem to always be a case of 'get on HRT and live a full rich life' anyway, there seem to be many ladies represented here who choose HRT but find it is not the cure-all that they had thought it would be.
In the end it is an individual and very personal decision and we should all be supporting each other not saying 'my way is better than your way'.
Just my point of view, don't want to make any more waves as this thread seems to be a little controversial.
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Well said too babyjane, post away :)
Also cherylks there is nothing wrong in realising that coping without HRT is not working for you :) (trying to choose my words carefully so as not to sound patronising ::)) we do get to a point sometimes in posts when things go a little fraught on MM but it always rights itself.
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Just to add on a lighter note, what I would value far more then HRT, supplements ext. or anything else, would be a good natural nights sleep as soon as my head hit the pillow, and to wake up feeling well and rested, for the rest of my life.
That to me is worth its weight in gold.
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No wonder women who are not taking hrt. Don't post when they read some of the posts on here. Dandelion your post is totally unacceptable. What about women who for medical reasons cannot take hrt. Do they need to read they are going to end up old bags. I don't normal rise to the bait as i'm sure that's why you said what you did, but i could not let that comment pass.
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Dandelion, I'm not on HRT and I'm not 'a frail shrivelled and miserable old bag'.
Most women don't take HRT but unfortunately they have to suffer total lack of respect for their choice by those that do.
Hi rosebud57
Sorry Frail shirvelled and miserable old hag is what I would feel like if I did not have HRT.
I'm sorry to cause offence with my words.
I hate not having enough hrt and I often wonder why some women don't choose it, but, ultimately, it's thier choice whether to take it or not.
:hug:
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No wonder women who are not taking hrt. Don't post when they read some of the posts on here. Dandelion your post is totally unacceptable. What about women who for medical reasons cannot take hrt. Do they need to read they are going to end up old bags. I don't normal rise to the bait as i'm sure that's why you said what you did, but i could not let that comment pass.
Dandelion, I'm not on HRT and I'm not 'a frail shrivelled and miserable old bag'.
Most women don't take HRT but unfortunately they have to suffer total lack of respect for their choice by those that do.
Hi rosebud57
Sorry Frail shirvelled and miserable old hag is what I would feel like if I did not have HRT.
I'm sorry to cause offence with my words.
I hate not having enough hrt and I often wonder why some women don't choose it, but, ultimately, it's thier choice whether to take it or not.
:hug:
PJ 44 - Think Dandelion has explained her comments.
I too would be a wreck if I couldn't use HRT.
OK some women can't, or don't want to, take it for different reasons.
But HRT can offer many benefits.
What's wrong with saying that?
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I know a lot of women who don't take HRT and none of them could ever be considered to be frail, shriveled or miserable and certainly not old bags.
If that was suggested to them a lynch mob would be out.
I have never understood why there is such an attitude on the forum over the women who do and the women who don't.
Surely we are all entitled to voice opinions and learn from each other without it getting personal in any way.
I do take HRT, but wish I didn't. I will stop at some point and the experience of those women who have chosen not to will be gratefully received.
Let's just respect everyone's choice without any need for unkind comments.
We do not want to drive anyone away from the forum because they think they will be criticised for their opinions.
Honeyb
x
Look :( I'm really sorry for what I said.
I wasn't thinking about what I was saying.
It's not like me to say unkind things.
I can understand why you non hrt women are upset with what I said, but I honestly didn't mean to upset you, just poorly chosen words with no thought of how they would be felt by others.
Thoughtlessness has been a big thing with my low moods in peri, too concerned about self to consider how others feel, but when my mood is not low, I am a really kind person.
I hate upsetting people.
Please accept my humblest apologies.
:grouphug:
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I think we should just move on now with no hard feelings.
We all have our moments ::)
Honeyb
x
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It's not a problem just expressing an opinion but what it implied (or said direct) by some ladies taking HRT e.g.
1) Those not taking HRT cannot possible be suffering as much or they would be taking it (very judgemental)
2) We are just plain stupid not to be taking it (bad mannered and judgemental).
Both of these views have been expressed or implied in this thread and that's why it has got so heated.
More respect is need.
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That is my last word on the subject.
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Hi, I was on HRT for 18 day's before my doctor brought me off it after having the most agonising migrains ever (had never had them in my life) I wasn't happy about taking HRT in the first place but was suffering with the most horrendous menopause symptoms so agreed to try it. I don't take anything at all now (dr also told me that the over counter remedies are rubbish and not to waste my money)
I still get the horrendous menopause symptoms hot flushes night sweats, feeling sick aching bones, mood swings, depression, tired all the time, can't bear my partner to touch me and have not had sex since February this year..The list goes on. For me I chose not to take HRT as the risks outweighed the benefits.. I live in hope I will wake up one day menopause free :o)
Sparky
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a good night's sleep makes a huge difference to how we feel ……..
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As a non-HRT lady I accept you didn't mean any harm Rosebud, its a tough time for us all. Time to move on. Hope you feel better soon.
Thorntrees
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I am 50, have been peri for a few years and am not on HRT. Up until recently I was adamnant I would not take hrt due to having tried it and various pills for period problems years ago which sent me over the edge. I eat healthily, exercise 3/4 times a week, try and not allow myself to get overstressed about life - not easy sometimes!! However, having been on this site for the last couple of years and reading all the posts, I have come to realise that the time may come when I have to give hrt a go. For me it will be a massive challenge - my quality of life and even life itself could be more compromised by hrt (I used to get suicidal with the extreme swings in hormone balance even with pill/hrt) whereas for the last few years I have been more settled. But I may have to consider the current quality or not of my life and which gives me the best outlook as other symptoms of Menopause kick in more severely. I appreciate hearing all views for and against. For some it is an easy choice - may be you are lucky in that. For others it is just not so straight forward.
Some of the synthetic progestins in some of the HRT's affects quite a few women this way, especially norethisterone.
Sadly, I think this puts some women off trying hrt, because of the bad experience.
Nowadays, though, they have bio-identical progesterone and this is much better tolerated as it is much closer to the natural progesterone.
It is called utrogestan or micronised progesterone and is much better tolerated than the old-fashioned synthetic progestins.
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Sorry, re my last post I meant to say Dandelion not Rosebud- just shows how confused I get these days 😊
Thorntrees
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Dandelion, hate to say it but you are pinning so much hope on something you have not even tried yet. I used utrogestan and hated it as have quite a few on the forum.
This is a thread for those not taking HRT.....ideas....suggestions....recommendations.
Maybe wait until you have tried before you recommend.
Honeyb
x
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Thought I would add my thoughts.
Aged 50 & bad skin & hot flushes for 18 months, dr prescribed prempak c, took for 3 months, horrendous periods, support & info on this website was brilliant.
Decided to stop hrt & try natural methods, read marilyn glenvilles book, have been taking menopace plus, omega 3 & now trying black cohosh. Hot flushes have returned but not horrendous. Also given up chocolate, biscuits & cake & replaced them with nuts, peanut butter, fruit & whole grain bread.
Have to say moods are even, I have lost 10 pounds in 8 weeks without too much difficulty, skin & hair are improving although my husband does complain about having a wife who is clammy from time to time!
While I am reasonably ok I will stay off the HRT but each woman has to read up the advice & make her own decision.
Good luck to all of you & thanks for coñtributing to such a supportive forum.
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Thanks kayeb
Yours sounds similar to mine- i never had pmt until i tried hrt, loved oestrogen though!! I do watch my diet and am trying starflower along with an iron/b6 supp for hair etc. ive only very recently stopped hrt so full force yet to come, but feeling fine!
Can i just throw in a question regarding these ads ive seen for 'natural oestrogen' does anyone know much about them?
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Karin - take the advert to your local Pharamacist for a chat about them?
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I highly recommend Marilyn Glenville's book "Natural Solutions for Menopause"
Have it on my kindle.
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Aren't you tempted to try another type of HRT though. There are lots of options and they can differ vastly in terms of side effects. Seems a shame if you are suffering so much.
Honestly no like I said in my previous post they don't know enough about the side effects for my liking. The way I look at it is, even if I was on hrt I would have to come off it eventually and would go through the menopause so what's the point. Every now and the hot flushes calm down for a day or two then wham 10 times worse than before with another new symptom lol. Lack of sleep gets me down so every now and then I take a zopiclone still wake up many times during the night soaked and have to change the bed just get back to sleep easier with the sleeping tablet.. This morning at 6/30 am I was sat in the garden with just my nightie on with the wind howling it was heaven, god knows what the neighbours think lol..
Sparky x
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Dandelion, hate to say it but you are pinning so much hope on something you have not even tried yet. I used utrogestan and hated it as have quite a few on the forum.
This is a thread for those not taking HRT.....ideas....suggestions....recommendations.
Maybe wait until you have tried before you recommend.
Honeyb
x
Thanks but I don't need to be told that utro is not fully successful, as I already know it isn't.
It has a better likelihood of success than norethisterone though, so there is nothing wrong with my comment.
If I get any problems from utrogestan, then I will deal with them if, and as they arise.
thanks :)
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Honestly no like I said in my previous post they don't know enough about the side effects for my liking. The way I look at it is, even if I was on hrt I would have to come off it eventually and would go through the menopause so what's the point. Every now and the hot flushes calm down for a day or two then wham 10 times worse than before with another new symptom lol. Lack of sleep gets me down so every now and then I take a zopiclone still wake up many times during the night soaked and have to change the bed just get back to sleep easier with the sleeping tablet.. This morning at 6/30 am I was sat in the garden with just my nightie on with the wind howling it was heaven, god knows what the neighbours think lol..
Sparky x
Who says you will have to come off and go through the menopause eventually?
This is not the case, unless there is a contra indication, but I understand that nowadays, hrt contra-indications are few.
There are women who plan to stay on it permanently and thrive.
It seems really sad that some women are prepared to put up with horrible night sweats and flushes and reduced quality of life, when they deserve a much better quality of life.
I'm still in the trial phase of hrt, and am really keen to get on one that works because my quality of life has been reduced so much by my flushes and sweats etc.
Ultimately, the decision whether to go on HRT is obviously upto the lady herself.
It's obviously upto you though.
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Hi Sparky64
You poor thing - you really are suffering. I do understand you are reluctant to consider HRT - I certainly didn't want to use HRT myself. You may be lucky and only experience these nasty meno symptoms for a couple of years and then they may settle down. You are right that GPs aren't well enough informed about the side effects of HRT and I personally feel there needs to be a more tailored approach to the treatment of menopause symptoms - whether you wish to use HRT or not.
Have you looked at the non HRT preparations? Though the initial side effects of alternative drugs can be an issue, many women find they really help flushes and night sweats.
I had a premature menopause so had to take HRT or probably face long term problems with my bones and heart. I had a DEXA scan of my bones when I was 37 and they were already borderline. I had to find an HRT that suited me. In the end I went to a private meno clinic and they put me on Oestrogel with 10 days of progesterone per month which wasn't perfect but I did feel good most of the time. I had young children - one with special needs - I had to be on top form to cope with life through this time.
I did take a break from HRT aged 49 because there were all those scares (which have now been largely discredited) and coped OK but my meno symptoms didn't subside(lack of sleep being the worse) and when family stresses increased with elderly relatives needing care I decided to try HRT again. I went to an NHS meno clinic this time and tried a variety of different HRTs and ended up with a Mirena and Oestrogel which worked well for me for the next 4 years.
I am sharing my experience with you because I had to keep an open mind about what was the best thing to do, not just for me, but for those around me. I'm now 58 and I've been off HRT for nearly a year. This last year has been the least stressful time I've had for the last 15 years, so I have had time to eat well, take lots of brisk walks, practise Mindful Mediation and do everything that is recommended to keep meno symptoms under control. I coped really well through the winter but this hot summer has been hell. My vaginal atrophy is a real issue and the lack of sleep is making it hard to work. HRT has always been a compromise for me (I would never say I was happy using it) but I am still keeping an open mind and have made a private appointment with a gynae, who specialises in the meno, to get his advice about how I can realistically manage my meno symptoms for the next 7 years or so while I still have to work and to give me the quality of life I need and want. Unfortunately for me, herbs, remedies and even a diet high in phytoestrogens hasn't helped my symptoms. Whether I go for HRT or possibly sleeping pills and ADs - all I know is I need help and advice.
I urge you to keep an open mind and, if you need help, find a specialist - the help is out there if you need and want it.
I do hope you find a good way forward.
DG x
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Dandelion, I said I would say no more on this thread but if I don't say something in reply to your post I will burst. You said:-
'It seems really sad that some women are prepared to put up with horrible night sweats and flushes and reduced quality of life, when they deserve a much better quality of life'.
WHO says we are are prepared to put up with it???
WHY are you sad???
WHY is HRT the only route to a better quality of life????
We all find our own solutions and giving your opinion as to your own circumstances is one thing.
Judging others for their choices is offensive.
Only around 20% of women who try HRT continue after the first year. So that mean 80% are trying other things and this is their CHOICE.
Nothing to be sad about and no need for you to judge.
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Don't think Dandelion is judging - just describing how she has found things herself.
She does say the decision to go on HRT is up to the lady herself. Also, to keep an open mind.
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Don't think Dandelion is judging - just describing how she has found things herself.
She does say the decision to go on HRT is up to the lady herself. Also, to keep an open mind.
Thanks Limpy.
I tried to choose my words as carefully as I could :)
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Not wishing to get involved in this thread but I was really surprised by the fact that only 20% of women continue HRT after one year. Can you tell me where you found this info rosebud57?
Taz x
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Can't remember exactly but was probably on Dr. Briffa's website, or Marilyn Glenville. Will have to check it out.
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Thank you - I've found it now. This article is dated 2001 so percentages may have changed over the past thirteen years. http://www.drbriffa.com/2001/08/21/phytoestrogens-and-the-menopause/
Taz x
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It is mainly due to compliance and side effects.
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Yes that's the one. Just re read it, an interesting article.
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Only around 20% of women who try HRT continue after the first year. So that mean 80% are trying other things and this is their CHOICE.
I am on HRT from 2000. Now it is Evorel 100 + Mirena. I will never know how it would be without it but I think that generally it made things better... considering.
From last year I am on Testosterone too - it makes me feel stronger. True that sometimes I could punch if pressured :-* but I see this as better then feeling weepy and scared, as I was without it. I also prefer this than what I see from my stuffed with Prozac etc. friends. .. one who are alive still... ??? I am lucky I don't have any other conditions, I know, besides odd complains to do with ageing. My blood pressure is perfect.
What convinced me to go on HRT was protection from Osteoporosis. All the rest was a gamble, I knew. Still is because, sadly, there is not enough research yet. Therefore, my GP asks me each time I come for my prescription if I really need to be on it, eager to cut down. >:( Thankfully, I am with Meno Clinic too! ;)
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\its quite true what rosebud has said
"Taking hormones can almost immediately eliminate hot flashes, vaginal dryness, urinary incontinence (depending on the cause), insomnia, moodiness, memory problems, heavy irregular periods, and concentration problems. Side effects of treatment include bloating, breakthrough bleeding, headaches, vaginal discharge, fluid retention, swollen breasts, or nausea. Up to 20% of women who try hormone replacement stop within nine months because of these side effects. However, some side effects can be lessened or prevented by changing the HRT regimen.
The decision should be made by a woman and her doctor after taking into consideration her medical history and situation. Women who choose to take hormones should have an annual mammogram, breast exam, and pelvic exam and should report any unusual vaginal bleeding or spotting (a sign of possible uterine cancer)"
from http://medical-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/menopause
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Just looked at the link Taz gave.
"However, 80 p.c. of women who start HRT stop it within a year, usually as the result of side-effects"
I Would be interested to see the references to the scientific papers and studies on which that figure is based.
Didn't see any in the link.
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I am a non HRT lady and It's been the hardest time of my life, absolutely life changing for me. I knew early on that I couldn't that HRT so I had to educated myself on the natural route by reading and learning. I am not someone who has had an easy ride, its been horrific and at one point I did consider asking to be put into a physiciatric (sorry cant spell it) unit. The anxiety, for me, has been disabling but I now manage it fairly well, I accept I have it, it comes in peaks and then lulls, I am still learning. It doesn't disable me now, I don't fight it, I breath slowly and go with it. Sometimes it lasts 1/2 a day and sometimes it last a week but it does slowly fade but never goes away completely. The hot sweats have been with me on and off for over 2 years, at the moment I can cope with them. The flushes are tame in comparison to the anxiety. I am 50 and my hot headed rages are minimal these days as have learnt how to manage those. The depression is also managed fairly well although always lurking. I have had no option but to do it without HRT it wasn't by choice. For anyone who is suffering at the moment just remember that it wont be forever, its does fade, sometimes it takes a while but it does ease off xxx
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Goodness, I never realised quite what a debate i would spark simply by asking for any natural tried and tested suggestions you all may have😄
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Well, you did ask :)
The thing is, there are many different opinions........
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Don't think it would be in a scientific paper Limpy, as it's just a statistic. Dr Briffa, being a doc probably has knowledge of these. Have tried to find more up to date figures, but all a get on government website is info on hormones in cows (not very helpful).
Perhaps someone in admin on this website could provide more recent numbers. Who would you ask?
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I would have thought that the statistic would have to be taken from some sort of scientific paper though which has gathered facts and figures? Not sure who you would ask.
Taz x
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http://www.maturitas.org/article/S0378-5122(99)00018-3/abstract?cc=y
If you look it up on google scholar you will find scientific articles.
I should think that most doctors know the statistics too.
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The post on Dr Briffa's web blog is quite old, from when the site first opened. It is actually from one of his newspaper articles, so its not a scientific paper at all.
All his more recent blogs have references, as far as I can tell.
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Hi Sparky64
You poor thing - you really are suffering. I do understand you are reluctant to consider HRT - I certainly didn't want to use HRT myself. You may be lucky and only experience these nasty meno symptoms for a couple of years and then they may settle down. You are right that GPs aren't well enough informed about the side effects of HRT and I personally feel there needs to be a more tailored approach to the treatment of menopause symptoms - whether you wish to use HRT or not.
Have you looked at the non HRT preparations? Though the initial side effects of alternative drugs can be an issue, many women find they really help flushes and night sweats.
I had a premature menopause so had to take HRT or probably face long term problems with my bones and heart. I had a DEXA scan of my bones when I was 37 and they were already borderline. I had to find an HRT that suited me. In the end I went to a private meno clinic and they put me on Oestrogel with 10 days of progesterone per month which wasn't perfect but I did feel good most of the time. I had young children - one with special needs - I had to be on top form to cope with life through this time.
I did take a break from HRT aged 49 because there were all those scares (which have now been largely discredited) and coped OK but my meno symptoms didn't subside(lack of sleep being the worse) and when family stresses increased with elderly relatives needing care I decided to try HRT again. I went to an NHS meno clinic this time and tried a variety of different HRTs and ended up with a Mirena and Oestrogel which worked well for me for the next 4 years.
I am sharing my experience with you because I had to keep an open mind about what was the best thing to do, not just for me, but for those around me. I'm now 58 and I've been off HRT for nearly a year. This last year has been the least stressful time I've had for the last 15 years, so I have had time to eat well, take lots of brisk walks, practise Mindful Mediation and do everything that is recommended to keep meno symptoms under control. I coped really well through the winter but this hot summer has been hell. My vaginal atrophy is a real issue and the lack of sleep is making it hard to work. HRT has always been a compromise for me (I would never say I was happy using it) but I am still keeping an open mind and have made a private appointment with a gynae, who specialises in the meno, to get his advice about how I can realistically manage my meno symptoms for the next 7 years or so while I still have to work and to give me the quality of life I need and want. Unfortunately for me, herbs, remedies and even a diet high in phytoestrogens hasn't helped my symptoms. Whether I go for HRT or possibly sleeping pills and ADs - all I know is I need help and advice.
I urge you to keep an open mind and, if you need help, find a specialist - the help is out there if you need and want it.
I do hope you find a good way forward.
DG x
Hi DG.. Thanks for your reply.. You have been through the mill, I don't know what I'm moaning for lol.. I have given myself till Jan 2015 and will see how things are then if no better I will look around and try alternatives. I have the sleeping pills and have got some different ad's to try, I have tried so many this last year but get awful side effects with them, have got venlafaxine now take my first one tomorrow so fingers crossed.
I'm coming back as a man lol
Sparky xx
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Checked out 'google scholar' silverlady, but it brought up 149,000 articles. Think I'll give it a miss.
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Just google
20% of women who try hormone replacement stop within nine months because of these side effects.
In google scholar.
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Karin that is the way on MM, you can't say we are boring :)
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Oh heck SL....you are so right. ;D
A lot of strong minded women here......makes it interesting.
Honeyb
x
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Hi karin Ohhhhh!!!! Has this thread thrown up some debate.
The title of this thread is 'Ladies not on HRT". Well I am one of the ladies posting on this site who is not using systemic HRT - at the moment. I am using local oestrogen for atrophy but I don't think that counts. I have seriously upped my phytoestrogen intake because my research has shown me evidence that this will benefit my heart and bones but sadly it hasn't helped my flushes, sleepless nights, headaches, libido etc……...
I haven't tried acupuncture myself but I know a few ladies who have found it good for meno symptoms. You do need to find a good and reputable acupuncturist.
DG xx
p.s. I may post a thread on Personal Experiences which will be a bit of cathartic therapy for myself. I wanted to respond to this thread with all it's heated debate but felt I shouldn't - too much hurt flying around.
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Doesn't that say the exact opposite of the other findings though? :-\ 80% give up within a year according to the Dr Briffa site?
Taz (puzzled) ;D x
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If 20% give up then 80% continue.
Not done percentages for a while ;D but that must be right.
Which means a lot more keep going than give up surely.
Honeyb
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Haven't read his report yet, most articles that I have read in the past seem to say about 20%.
It could be a lot more or less, going by other forums I have read there is a lot of drop out mainly because of not being able to get on with it or find HRT that suits.
I have to be honest and say if I had not had a hysterectomy I would not have coped with full HRT and would not have been on it. When I was 56 I stopped my patch for nearly two years and felt very well, I was not much on MM then as I was taking my college course and had other things going on in my life, to be honest I only went back on it after being on MM again and started worrying about my bones and what would happen if I was not on estrogen.
Now I feel better off my patch at the moment, and am at peace with that decision.
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Forgot to say that I do have creams with containing hormones ( not prescription) that I occasionally dab on, mainly I add them to a moisture cream.
So that means my body maybe be satisfied with the minute amount I let it have :)
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It's finding what suits SL. I could be very wrong, but is it not easier to find something that works if you don't have to take progesterone. That's the thing that causes the problems.
I do intend, next year, to try and come off HRT. Tried before but not with any great enthusiasm. Next year could be different.
Honeyb
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You are right HB, I have always thought that coping with large amounts of progesterone after menopause taxes the body too much, in a natural cycle before menopause the body only produces about 20 to 30 mgs in the second part of the cycle and even that combined with estrogen produced can make some women feel pretty awful
In pregnancy a lot more progesterone is made but it is combined with estriol not estrodiol.
That's the reason some women find the progesterone part of HRT so hard to put up with.
Even too much estrogen alone can cause problems, I just could not tolerate too much estrogen either.
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If 20% give up then 80% continue.
Not done percentages for a while ;D but that must be right.
Which means a lot more keep going than give up surely.
Honeyb
The info from Dr Briffa says that 80% give up and only 20% continue - that's what I meant.
Taz x ;D
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It would be good to see the confidence intervals associated with the statistics.
i.e. plus or minus whatever %
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All these statistics are giving me a hot flush.
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:hotflash: :hotflash: :hotflash:
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Sad truth is, not many scientists care about us, Ladies. For too many we are past it!
When I was at Uni not so long ago, and I had an access to current research, it said so many contradicting things - some not at all from my own experience :(
Something is going on!
Could it be more about Feminism - e.g. 'older women are not worth bothering with' - then about real women's health? ... I often wonder!
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Just a point about herbal/alternative remedies. I know some ladies are worried that if something is not prescribed by a doctor it might be dangerous/unhelpful. This seems to be part of the culture in Britain. But did you know that is some countries, Germany for instance, it is normal practice for a GP to prescribe these remedies alongside pharmaceutical drugs. I can testify this from personal experience as I lived in Germany for 2 years.
It may be the culture in Britain for GPs to poo poo alternative remedies, but in other countries they are regarded as useful. So who is right?
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Since I have been on MM I have wondered why it causes such responses, what does it matter what you use for menopause personally as long as it helps you get by, in my innocence back then I was enthusiastic about complementary solutions ( along with preventative health and well being) as it was my passion, use to post about it but did get flack! as I was on a estrogen patch I supported HRT but was not unaware about the downsides.
Now when I post I find myself furiously looking for scientific evidence e.g. papers ext. to back up whatever point I am trying to get across ( aware of the many many contradictions even in the scientific community) just so I don't get put down even if is subtly. I have decided I am not going to do that anymore.
It spoils spontaneity though and enthusiasm at least for me now, I wish it wasn't like that.
Once again I agree with what rosebud has said, having lived in other countries herbal remedies are well researched especially in Germany, agnus castus is a good example. In France, Italy and most European countries they do not question using these remedies.
In Britain and America they are fighting to keep the right to able to use the non pharmaceutical methods, there are government petition you can sign if you are interested. Ironically in Britain it is a European ruling that many remedies cannot be sold now as well as some vitamins and minerals, also ironic that prescribed drugs are killing many many patients yearly something not often talked about or discussed.
Here in the northwest in parts there is a strong local tradition for herbalism and other remedies, you will find shops in the markets and independent health shops are always very busy.
I have written this post from my heart and not to cause division or arguments. HRT works very well for women who have found the right regime, others have found other ways work for them, what matters that we have the choice and can change our minds later if we want to. We should be thankful for that a lot of women in the rest of the world don't have the choice we are so lucky to have.
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Over the last year, I just felt like coming off my femoston as it's doing didddly squat, and not bothering with HRT.
This is because of the difficulties I was encountering with the doctors, part of me just thought, "I just won't bother at all, then I won't have the hassle with doctors getting stroppy"
But, the flushes and the sweats seem to be getting steadily worse.
I have a cold flat, winter is coming, waking up wet from a night sweat, in a cold bedroom, with single glazed windows, is just asking for chest infections, (I already have COPD)
Also, my mood is just crazy low. I know there are women who's HRT does not address their mood problems, unfortunately, but I at least want to keep trying different types before I give up on it.
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I dont think anything on here is meant to be divisive , its just an opinion and perhaps the more sensitive types take it personally. Also some posts read quite strongly which is possibly not intended by the author and would sound completely different if we were all sitting chatting around the kitchen table. As for the natural therapies those of us for whom they havent worked hate to think of people wasting lots of money and a bit like reading an amazon review its great to hear all of the different experiences. So I think thats all it boils down to .
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I've had lady care on either three weeks or a month, still not long enough.
Flushes and sweats have got worse, when I am in a warm environment, or come indoors after a long walk :hotflash:
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Before I was on HRT I found hot drinks triggered a flush especially coffee. Alcohol was a huge no no as it is for many women. Even on HRT a glass of wine can bring on a flush.
Definitely a healthy diet and exercise helps.
Honeyb
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A glass of wine is a huge yes yes! Got to keep a perspective ladies 😄
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Karin - Can't argue with that ;D
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The No No was pre HRT. Now it's a different story, mind you I'm still a light weight ;D
Honeyb
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Also meant to say on a more serious note.....alcohol...Well at least for me made flushes much much worse.
It still makes me feel hot with the occasional flush if I have a glass of wine.
It's also not recommended if you are on HRT. We all do but it should really be in moderation....unfortunately.
Honeyb
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Honeyb - You are correct of course.
Rats.