Menopause Matters Forum
General Discussion => New Members => Topic started by: sandy on March 05, 2013, 07:43:12 AM
-
Hi , my problems started last october, but previous to that i had not had a period for 10 months and having the usual hot flushes and some days not feeling quite well, but i just got on with my life, then in october on my way back from holiday i collapsed on the aeroplane, when i arrived home went to doctors and i had a urine infection, this is where it all went wrong, been on several antibiotics, which eventually cleared it up, but was still feeling very poorly, then i started having bad palpitations which i was admitted to hospital for, i have had my heart checked out and everything is fine, had a ultra scan and transvaginal scan, and that came back fine, had a 24 hour urine sample done blood tests done, every thing ok but blood tests confirmed i was in the menopause my FSH level was 113, so went on HRT Elleste Duet 1mg then went on to 2mg then changed to femoston 1mg but was not feeling well on HRT so doctor took me off it, went on Beta Blockers because palpitations were everyday, then startred with bad anxiety which i am not copeing very well with, went to doctors and she had put me on Lustarl antidepressants 50mg i only started them on thursday, but woke up early this morning feeling shaky inside and restless and very anxious, dont know what to do for the best, do i phone doctors and tell her how i am feeling or just carry on, so sorry for the long moan, but feel like i need a little help from you lovely ladies...
-
Hi Sandy
Sorry to read your feeling anxious. AD's do have side effects which usually get better after a few weeks and if you can ride it through then they may help you in the longterm. I would definately call your GP and have a chat with them as they will know whether or not this brand of AD'S is known to cause these side effects and they may be able to put your mind at rest. Betablockers were good for me, I took Propanolol as I had palpatations and severe anxiety. When I get shakey restless and anxious now I work it off by going for a long fast walk, that might sound easy but it really relieves things for me. I hope you are feeling better soon xx
-
Hi sandy
Just reading your post...I am new on here too and sometimes AD can cause your symptoms to become worse before they ease off. When I started on citalopram 10mg for palpitations and anxiety.. I felt like that after a few days and then it eased off. When I increased to 20mg (which is the recommended dose for peri menopause flushings apparantly) ??'the same thing happened and felt like I was shaky, trembling and detached from things around me. This wore off after a few days and then the anxiety eased off... You may need to give it a few more days if you can. Hope you start to feel more relaxed. The peri menopause anxiety is one of the worst things I think about this whole journey.. :o
-
Hi, everyones mum, thank you for your advice was not sure how long the antidepressants took to work, i am one of those people thinknig medication is going to work within a few days, but think i will have to ride it out a bit longer and be a bit more patient, i am going to feed my horse now and take your advice and go for a long walk with the dog, and as you say it may be best to phone doctor and just explain how i am feeling on them. Its nice to know there are people out there like youself, who can help advice you and support you, and somebody that understands the menopausee. Thank You.
-
Hi Bella Mamma, thanks for the advice, my anxiety is not quite as bad as this morning, but its still there, i have phoned the doctors surgery and i am waiting for doctor to phone me back, but as you said your anxiety got worse before getting better, i did not realise it takes about 2 weeks for it work, i hate all this anxiety all i want is to be back to normal, but sometimes i can see no end to it, but its nice to know people like yourself understand what i am going through, because you have been through the same thing. Do you know at what stage the anxiety goes away with the menopause,the more i read books about it the more confused i am. Thank You.
-
Hi sandy, hope you get on ok with dr today and they have Put your mind at ease a bit. its positive that your anxiety does not seem to be any worse as the day has gone on today. I found when I started the AD it took over a week for it to ease off....I thought I had made a mistake by going on them but I could not carry on with the horrible anxiety feelings as honestly thought i was going mad with it :) I am in peri menopause and am 42. Been having problems since past 2 years and jUst started elleste duet 1 mg last week and on 5th day of it...so far so good. How did you find the hrt? I am still on my AD for now as too scared to come off them in case my anxiety comes back the way it was. It has been worth taking the AD definitely.
-
Hi sandy
Firstly :welcomemm:
Sorry to hear about your anxiety and menopausal health problems.
I have no experience of anti-depressants but just to say that if you did not suffer anxiety in your life before then it is almost certainly hormone related and it is a pity that the HRT you tried did not work for you.
There are many women on here who have suffered the same symptoms ( it is a common condition of peri-menopause) which have been helped enormously on HRT without the need for ADs, although I understand these can help in the short term.
How long did you try the different HRTs for and what did it make you feel? Was it during the second half of the months ie when you changed tablets? It could have been the synthetic progestogen in them. Also you need to give HRT time to work - the physical symptoms are the first to go and the other symptoms - emotional etc take a bit longer.
Maybe taking them orally doesn;t work for you? If this is the case you could try a transdermal type (pacth or gel) and there are various ways of doing this which we can help you with if you want to go down this route.
The thing is, HRT replaces the oestrogen in your body which goes up and down in peri=-menopause and eventually on a downward path. The vaginal/bladder problems are usually due to decreasing oestrogen and can occur from peri-meno onwards and go on well into post-meno ie for the rest of your life. Vaginal oestrogen like vagifem etc can help with this
You haven't said how old you are but if you are under 51/52 ish then taking HRT is only topping up your oestrogen before the avergae age of meno-pause and can help protect your bones against osteoporosis.
Hope this helps
Hurdity x
-
Hi Bella Mama, the doctor phoned me back, she says to carry on with the AD, and as you said they need to get in my system, may take 2 weeks, i was the same as you i did not want to go on AD but the anxiety is horrendous, i have never suffered from it before, i will be glad when i have gone through the menopause i am 51 this year so dont know how long it will go on for. The HRT did not help with my anxiety, i was getting a lot of headaches and stomach pains and feeling sick, people kept telling me i would feel great on it, but i didant , some people say the patches are good as its in your system 24 hours a day, maybe i should have tried the patches, but my doctor said when you go on HRT you have to give it 3 months for the full effect, i am fed up with the anxiety thats why i went down the AD route, i hope the HRT works for you, see how you get on with it, if everything is ok on it i would gradually weane your self off the AD you can always go back on them if the HRT does not help with your anxiety.
-
Hi Hurdity, I was on HRT for 4 months, i had bad headache, stomach pains and was feeling sick, i also was having bad palpitations, and the dreadfull anxiety, it did not seem to help in any way, it didant matter if i was on the green tablet or the white one i still felt poorly on it, maybe i should have tried the patches, my doctor said HRT does not agree with everyone, but if i wanted to give it another go she would be willing to put me back on it, i have never suffered from anxiety before, i will be 51 in may, before i went on HRT i had not had a period for 10 months and was suffering from the hot flushes, which i could cope with, then it all went down hill when i collapsed on the aeroplane, i just cant cope with the anxiety, thats why i have gone down the AD route, i am just waiting for it to work as i have only been on it a couple of days.
-
Hi sandy
Sorry to hear ryou are feeling so bad. I can sympathise completely with anxiety as it was the one symptom i couldn't cope with and sent me running to my gp in desperation. I was prescribed mirtazapine which helped calm medown instantly and helped me get much needed sleep. At the same time i started hrt which i have continued with as this takes some time to have any effect. I have changed to a different hrt from my original one as i panicked thinking it wasn't working well enough. I'm now on femoston 2/10 which has helped a lot but hasn't completely got rid of depression and some other emotional symptoms. I think if you're still having periods you can expect some degree of hormonal fluctuations until they stop.
I'm afraid it all takes time to work which is hard when you feel so bad. I have to say the mirtazapine definitely helped to calm me down initially whrn i felt so bad. Hope this helps you a little.
Take care.
Delilah x
-
Hi Delilah,
before i went on HRT i had not had a period for 10 months, then when i went on HRT I had periods , but now i have come off HRT i have not had a period , so dont know if i will have one . Started on AD last week because i am not copeing with the anxiety, the AD seem to make my anxiety a little worse, but from what i understand they take about 2 weeks before they satrt to work, i am feeling anxious today and a little spaced out, i dont like takeing AD but what can you do when all you want to do is get rid of the anxiety, i have got to go back to my doctors next week because she only gave me 2 weeks supply of AD just to see how i am getting on with them, i am just trying to keep busy best i can.
Thanks.
-
Hi sandy
Just to say I would definitely try another type of HRT if you were not anxious before the menopause, and sounds like you won't have to persuade your doc. Just best to know what you want to try before your appt if that's what you decide to do.
Why not try a patch such as Femseven which is changed once a week and will give you a withdrawal bleed when you stop the combi part of the patches? At least you would not feel sick nor have stomach pains as the hormones are absorbed straight into the system.
The other alternative is to go for separate oestrogen ( patch or gel) and progesterone but if taking medication orally makes you feel sick maybe the progesterone that would best go with this (Utrogestan) would not suit you? Depends on how you are with oral meds?
If you look at the greeen menu to the left all the HRT types are listed under HRT preparations but if you want any more help please ask.
Hurdity x
-
Hi Sandy
I watched a fair few friends start to use AD'S last year and they all felt terrible for the 1st 2 weeks and then slowly improved. Now they swear by them. You are doing the right thing by keeping busy and also come on here and get it all off your chest as this site has a wealth of info. I went to hell and back with anxiety last year and so I really feel for you right now but please hang on to the fact that it will lift. xx :)
-
Hi everyones mum,
Thank you for putting my mind at ease, i think i thought the AD were going to work instant, but now realise they may take a coulple of weeks, i have to go back to doctors next week as she only gave me 2 weeks supply just to see how i was doing on them, i did not realise that when you first go on AD that they could make you feel awful and that it could increase your anxiety. Can i ask you how long your anxiety lasted, and what medication did you take to get rid of it, i am so happy that you have got through the anxiety. Its nice to know that you can come on this forum and discuss your problems with people that have gone through the same thing as you , and that they can give you good advice and reassurance.
Thank You.
-
Hi Hurdity,
Thank you for the advice its much appreciated ,if i decide to give HRT another go, i will ask if i can go on the patches, they sound much better, wish i had found this site much earlier, with the information you have given me i would have been able to ask the doctor from the beginning to put me on the patches you suggested, and maybe i would have not had all the problems that i have had with the tablet from. Thanks again for the advice.
Sandy.x
-
Hi Sandy
I took AD'S first off but they did not suit me and I gave up on them early on. Looking back I should have persevered, I took a beta blocker called Propanolol which helped me with the anxiety. I also took small doses of Diazipam (vallium) on and off. I'd say my anxiety lasted 6 months. It was the first 2 months that were the hardest as I thought id gone nuts but with the help of the betablocker, exercise (walking) and this forum it slowly but surely got better. I stll get blips but I understand it all so much better now that it doesnt scare me anymore and I deal with it. Keep yourself busy, try not to allow yourself to start dwelling on things that arnt helpful and if you find yourself getting worked up try and change what you doing, phone a friend, wash up ect just distract yourself and slowly things will lift. Things will improve for you soon, it just takes a little time xx :)
-
Hi everyones mum,
Been feeling very sick this weekend and having a lot more hot flushes, think its all side effects from AD, i will be glad when i see my doctor next week, also go no appetite, i have lost quite a bit of weight, i will just have to wait and see what doctor is going to do next, when i spoke to her last week regarding how i was feeling on AD she was on about increasing the dosage, then i have been thinking to myself maybe i am not suited to these AD (Sertraline 50mg) and need to try a diffrent make, my Beta Blockers are (Bisoprolol 2.5mg) and they have helped with the palpitations but done nothing for my anxiety, thats why i had to go on AD. On friday afternoon i felt a bit like my old self for a coulple of hours and i thought maybe the AD have started to work, but that was short lived (silly me). I am glad i found this forum, and been able to write things down and know that you lovely people understand what i am going through, because you have been through the same things you self.I will let you know how i get on with doctor next week.
Sandy.xx
-
The sickness feeling is quite a common one and can be combatted by making sure your sugar levels are steady. Eat little and often, bananas, ginger biscuits. I know you dont have an appetite but try and buy some easy quick things that you usually like to eat. Fruit is also great. If you can manage taking the AD'S untill you see your GP then thats good as he/she will have an idea wether they suit you. How is your sleeping? There is a 3 2 1 excersise on the forum that is super for calming the anxious feelings. It takes a little practice but its great xxx
-
Hi everyones mum.
My sleeping is not brilliant, i started with sleeping problems about 4 years ago, but i never thought back then that it could be due to the early stages of menopause, i have started to wake up around 3.30am most days and then can not get back to sleep properly, i have always been an early riser, in summer i am up at about 5.30am, but it would be nice not to wake up as early as 3.30. I have just started to eat ginger biscuits for the sickness. Think i need to try and eat little and often, as you say probably my sugar level is dropping, which is not good.
Sandy.xx
-
Hi Sandy
I have had the 3 am waking and its horrid. In the end I started to get up and do the ironing !!! and had a nap in the afternoon. It does get better, in fact it will all get better and even out. I am feeling rather poo this weekend and have awful anxiety, sickness feeling and feel like my insides are trembling, its reduced me to tears all weekend. I am trying all my new learnt tips to try and combat it all and have ended up with a migraine 2 days running. Mine has been bought on by family upsets which, up untill a year ago, I could handle but since perimenopause started I seem to drop at the first hurdle. I hope your feeling a little better xx
-
Hi everyones mum,
So sorry to hear that you have been feeling unwell this weekend, unless you have been through it yourself nobody knows what you are going through, its the worse feeling in the world, hope you can get through your family upsets, we can do without upset when going menopause it just makes the anxiety worse, but life is never streight foward, i wish it was. Going to see my doctor tomorrow morning, so see what she suggests, i will let you know how i get on. I hope you are feeling a bit better this morning, take care.
Sandy xx
-
Hi sorry to hear you are still struggling with the anxiety. Are you getting spells of feeling like your old self now and again? I can relate totally to the loss of appetite. last year I lost about a stone in weight and I don't find it easy to put on weight at the best of times! (Although some people might say that's very lucky situation to be in) when I worry my appetite goes away. I had to force myself and started eating little and often and every night had a banana and a couple of digestives so could eat that through the night, found that helped lots. The distraction thing works for me too by doing something completely different when I find myself thinking about the same things over and over. Getting out of the house and walking with the dog seems to lift the flat feelings...can you borrow a dog :) hope you feeling brighter soon.
-
Hi Bella mama,
i get the odd hour when anxiety goes away, but it does not last long, back at doctors tomorrow, dont know if she will change my AD or try give me a higher dose, i have lost over a stone since last october, dont really want to loose any more, i am only 5 foot 1 and weigh 8 and a half stone, starting to look a bit scrawny in my face. I take my mums dog out (Billy), we go up to my horse regular it helps take my mind off the anxiety, i love walking went on a 6 mile walk yesterday but kept comeing over all strange and sweating really bad, think that was the dreaded anxiety, hope i get somewhere with doctor tomorrow. I will keep you posted. xx
-
Learning to breath slowly and deeply will help with the sweaty pannicky times. Bettes 3 2 1 excersise is also great for those moments. And Bella mama is right, distraction is very useful and does work. I hope you get on well at the doctors tomorrow xx
-
Hi sandy
If you came over strangely and sweating really badly while you were on a 6 mile walk it could have been low blood sugar.
Getting shaky and sweat, feeling irritable and light-headed are all symptoms. It is more likely to happen if you take exercise and haven't eaten a lot.
I get this sometimes - it happens a lot during peri-menopuase from what I gather - I used to go from slightly hungry to the shaky sweaty stage very rapidly and now still do sometimes if I don't eat enough and take exercise. it would mae you feel very anxious and irritable.
Now I don't know anything really about the regulation of blood sugar metabolism but if you are peri-menopausal this could happen - and also maybe the ADs affect blood sugar metabolism?
Make sure you eat things with a high ( or is it low?) glycaemic index - whole grains, fruit especially apples, oats etc. carry a muesli bar around with you. You can look up which foods are best but you need to eat more regularly, Identify which times of the day you feel like this.
For me it's the morning mainly. If I have to do something a bit more strenuous I make sure I have a boiled egg and toast as well as my oats/muesli, yog and bilberries!
Hope this helps
Hurdity x
-
Hi Hurdity,
Thanks for the advice, i am going to take a cereal bar with me next time i go on a long walk, and i am going to try and not go so long without eating, i try eat breakfast at 6am then dont have lunch while 12.30, and i think its too long without food. Your advice is much appreciated. xx
-
whaaat?
6 and a half hours without food - and a 6 mile walk? Definitely too long without eating! I think I would faint and be really dizzy. You should really eat something every 3 hours at most to keep blood sugar levels up - but not pure sugar - as I said something slow release (but depends on what your breakfast is of course!). When I was peri (in my late 40's/early 50's) I used to carry glucose tablets around with me as it would suddenly happen if I was out - but I was tested and not diabetic ( nor did I know I was peri at the time!).
Keep us posted how you feel and if this is one of the causes of your strange symptoms
Hurdity x
-
Hello everyones mum,
I am interested finding out about the 321 exercise I have not heard of this.
I do shift work and the tiredness with my night shifts make my palpitations happen more often and at times I get adrenaline rushes with them. I call them swooshes!! ..they don't worry me half as much now because I know it's my peri that is causing them. the citalopram has stopped them coming as often....But anything to help get in control while they are happening would be really good.
Thanks v.much
-
Hi sandy,
Hope all goes well at the docs today and you have a good doctor. So much great advice on here on how to help anxiety. It makes it so much easier to deal with I think. knowing that other people experience the same things and that this is all down to hormones!
Take care
-
Hi Bella mama,
Explained to doctor how i was feeling, she has told me to carry on with AD, she gave me another 4 weeks, then i have to go see her again in 4 weeks to see how i am getting on, she said she did not want to increase my dosage at this stage, she said they take time to build up in your system, and they were not a quick fix, they take several weeks to start working. Think i was expecting them to work within a week, as you know when you have anxiety you just want something to take it away streight away, but unfortunately it does not seem to work like that, i got myself in such a state and i was desperate for AD to work, but i have got to try be patient, which is easier said than done. xx
-
Hi Everyones mum,
Just to let you know Doctor kept me on the same AD for another 4 week, she did not want to increase dosage, she said i need to give them time to get in my system, i also had a bad nights sleep which did not help with anxiety this morning, felt awfull in car this morning, i just kept thinking to myself remember what advice you have been given and keep calm and watch your breathing. How are you keeping, have you got your anxiety settled, i hope you have, , take care.xx
-
Hi Hurdity, from what i understand anxiety can make you feel diizy,shaky and just feeling strange, but i do need to keep my sugar levels up, because i dont think that i am doing myself any good going several hours without food . I try eat porridge for breakfast, but sometimes i have to eat ginger biscuits because i have started to feel sick on a morning since been on AD, but hope that will pass. I have also just started to eat Banannas ( i am takeing all the good advice on board), Everyones mum, Bella Mama and yourself have given me some good advice, and its nice to know that people like yourselfs know what i am going through, it makes me feel better knowing i am not alone, i ve got a good husband and mother but its not the same, as they dont know how i really feel, my mother just suffered from hot flushes, but that was a long time ago she is now 83. xx
-
Hi Sandy
I think most people start to see an improvement between 2-3 weeks and by then your body should have adjusted to all the side effects. I am keeping everything crossed for you.
My anxiety is not being helped by family problems so I'd be lying if I said it was better. At the moment I seem to be dragging myself through the days but I am trying to be upbeat. xx
-
Hi Bella mama
The 3 2 1 excersise is at the top of the personal experiences section. If you cant find it just let me know and I will try and copy and past it here
It is very effective xx
-
Hi Sandy and everyone who has replied.
I just did a long email but seem to have lost it while previewing it :( I am 51 had a sub total hysterectomy in 2008 without symptoms until last year, after having a very stressful year. I can relate to your anxiety symptoms Sandy and palpations especially in the mornings which i have never had before. Also stated having aching joints, memory and sleep problems followed by worrying and being hot and sweaty, although hot flushes are not the main concern.
I have now been to a menopause clinic and going to be prescribed Tibolone HRT. However after going to a menopause conference it was suggested I start off with estrogen separately and sequential progesterone due to long term risks of progesterone and to see if i have a bleed (as still have cervix) its all very confusing.
Would like to know if anyone has tried Tibolone and does it help with moods/anxiety or joint pains? Strange thing is.... I suddenly felt better for about 6 weeks (without trying anything) then went back to my symptoms again. I use to be much more carefree and loved my sleep. This is all new to me and just doing my research would appreciate any suggestions/comments.
Thanks Jaz xx
-
Hi Jaz
I have not had hrt and so I can't offer any advise in that dept. I do believe I have been in peri for 3-4 years which started with joint pain and feeling dizzy. I have spent the last few years with hot and cold spells. 2011 my memory went to pieces and at the beginning of 2012 I went to pieces with anxiety that was off the scale. This coincided with periods that stated coming much closer together and mood swings that were 10 times worse than ever before. Like you, I was a lover of my sleep but was waking at 3 am and could not get back to sleep. My sleep has improved after 6 months of waking, my moods are now more even and I generally feel 90 % better. If we have an upset I seem to not cope very well and the anxiety comes back but I wander through it and it improves again. After finding this forum and all the lovely ladies on here, I changed my diet and started eating better. I started walking 3-4 times a week. I started taking high grade fish oil. I cut down a little on my work and i started putting me first. This time last year I was almost agoraphobic and so i feel all of the above helped me.
I hope someone will be along shortly to help with the hrt questions xx
-
Hi Everyones Mum
Thanks for your thoughts, I also have periods of time I dont feel like leaving the house, but when not at work I try to make myself go out and book holidays in advance with friends. I live alone so that does not help as its so easy not to bother, some days i just dont feel like getting out of bed. My lack of motivation can affect my exercise routine and my appetite and like Sandy I did lose some weight so dont want to do anything too aerobic until I get into a better routine but seems to be a vicious cycle.
I know I am just not myself and therefore decided to go down the HRT route. I had two bereavements last year and was told stress can trigger symptoms so please anyone reading my thread do get in touch.
Look forward to hearing from you. Jaz xx
-
Hi jaz, I am new to this site too and been on citalopram AD 20mg for the last year for the anxiety from peri menopause. I am 42 And still getting periods but irregular, heavy, light....erratic. I have had night sweats but the flushings aren't the main problem, it's been palpitations, overwhelming tiredness, Headaches, Awful joint, muscle pain and hard to walk when I Get up from sitting down for a while. My confidence also dipped a lot. A huge physical change for me as I used to jog regularly and take part in 10k runs.
The AD have definitely helped get me over the worse of the anxiety and they have taken the edge off it. I feel a lot stronger mentally and needed to feel like my normal physical self and went back to dr last month to ask about hrt. It's not an easy decision to start on hrt but my doc seemed to think if i was able to take hrt then the benefits far outweigh the risks....
I started on elleste duet 1mg and am 2 weeks into taking them. My head definitely feels clearer and I am getting better sleeps the last few nights. I had a couple of days of stomach cramping when i started taking them but that's gone. I have not had one headache since starting tablets so I am hoping this continues. Hey...my muscle/joint pain has eased so much the past few days too... I think the green tablets containing the progesterone can cause a few problems but I really hope I will be ok on them.
Being new on hrt I can't give any advice really but I felt anything was worth a try if i am able to take it instead of struggling on. Also having 2 girls under the age of 10 who need a mummy who is able to keep up with them!
Hope someone can give advice on the hrt you have been prescribed. X
-
Hi Jaz, sorry i cant help you regarding the HRT, i was only on Hrt for a short while, and was not getting on very well with it, i take Beta Blockers for the palpitations and AD for the anxiety, which i am still waiting for them to work fully on me, i have only been on them for 2 weeks, but still getting the anxiety, but some lovely people from this forum have told me they take a few weeks for AD to start to work, so i am hanging in there. I have had sleep problems comeing up to nearly 4 years now, i had really bad joint pains last year, but they seem to have eased , i have spondylosis of the lower spine which i have had for nearly 20 years, so i put the joint pains down to my dodgy bones, i still get the odd pain in my hips and knees but not as bad as last year. I hope you get on with your HRT, sorry i could not be of any help, take care.
Sandy.x
-
Re anxiety
Hi everyone I’m new on here but really need peoples advice. I am 53 and for the last 6 months have suffered anxiety really badly which is something that I have never had before. My doctor has given me propanol which I don’t really want to take so at the moment just taking when needed.i feel anxious every day and have a fear that I’m going to have an heart attack😢. I’ve been on kliovance hrt now for 2 months but don’t feel any different. I feel like I’m living a different life to what I lived before and just want my old self back
-
If you were diabetic would you not take medication as prescribed? I used propranolol successfully from 2002 until March this year. The idea is for the drug to ease anxiety surges. I took 80mg 3 times a day for a month then dropped to 40mg at night and then 20mg at night. Some GPs suggest 'as necessary' but usually 1 takes it regularly.
The Change does what it says on the tin! we are unlikely to feel 'as we were' during hormonal upheaval. It's not simply less periods and hot flushes! Browse round. Do consider taking the BB, the GP wouldn't give it you if it wasn't found to be useful. Let us know how you get on!