Menopause Matters Forum
General Discussion => New Members => Topic started by: Suzyq on December 17, 2013, 12:37:51 PM
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Hi everyone
I'm new to this site (which seems just great) but not unfortunately to the joys of hormone hell. Been peri for about 5 years with truly awful symptoms. Put on compounded progesterone 6 months ago, which has helped a lot with anxiety. Yesterday was told I have less estrogen than a man - charming! Now started estrogel as well. Obviously nervous but at this point desperate.
So nice to read honest info rather than just "no hrt for me, I'm going natural". Why are we made to feel guilty for wanting to treat a horrendous condition with real drugs, rather than acupuncture and a bit of soya milk? Anyway fingers crossed that it works and I won't ruin Xmas for everyone...
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Hi and welcome to the forum!!!
Let us know how soon the estrogel works on your symptoms and which ones it helps OK? I hope it works fast.
I'm sure there are members who are looking for this info.
Andius
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Thanks Andius, will do. Well was expecting to be hit by stroke, DVT etc etc straight after first pump yesterday but thankfully I survived to take another dose!!! Yay.
Really hoping it helps as sick of feeling sick
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Hello Suzyq and welcome to the forum.
I am, ahem, one of those women who is doing it without HRT but only because the HRT I tried didn't help. I had an alternative prescribed by the GP but I haven't taken it yet as I keep hoping that at 57 and 3 years without a period I should be over the worst by now. That belief sustains me on a good day but when I'm having a bad day ( like today) I think any minute now I'll crack and reach for the patch! Time will tell I guess.
Take care and keep posting.
K.
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Hi Kathleen, nice to 'meet' you. I am in awe of you going natural. I was determined that I would too but after so many years of terrible symptoms and not even being in true menopause I cracked! To be honest I had my first hot flushes a couple of weeks ago and for me it wasn't just oh no I'm really hot get a fan! I had spiking high blood pressure, racing heartbeat and thought I was going to pass out. That really was the last straw!
Sorry you are having a bad day. I do know just how bad hey can get, but hopefully you have more good than bad, and as you say hopefully you are near the end of it!! Is there anything that makes you feel better?
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:welcomemm:
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Hi Suzyq
:welcomemm:
from me too.
Are you in UK?
If you are and are taking oestrogel - there is no need to take compounded progesterone, and in fact some of these compounding establishments are not regulated (and are very expensive) and you may not get sufficient progesterone to prevent your uterus lining from building up from the oestrogen.
In UK you can get micronised progesterone (the same compound as you are using) on NHS marketed as Utrogestan, which is licensed in sufficent doses to be used with oestrogel. In US I think the same product is called Progest?
Re going natural or HRT. For many of us it's not just about symptoms - well it may be initially, but when we have read up more about oestrogen deficiency and its effects - we are then in it for the long term. I am well post-meno and choose to continue to take HRT at age 60 for the health benefits it confers. And taking hormones - well the body identical ones like estradiol and progesterone, is most emphatically not taking drugs - we are just replacing our own hormones. The contraceptive pill could be called a drug, and some HRT types - because they are completely synthetic - but you can use body-identical products!
Hurdity x
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Hi and Welcome Suzyq
You are certainly not alone - especially here on this site. 'Going the natural way' is only for those lucky women who suffer few if any symptoms OR the very unlucky women who can't take HRT for other health reasons. DO NOT FEEL GUILTY OR A FAILURE. I believe we owe it to ourselves and our family to be at our best and for many of us our 40s,50s & 60s can be the busiest and most stressful time of our lives.
I used Oestrogel through peri and post meno and found it great because you can start with one pump per day and then increase to as much as 4 pumps per day if need be until you find the right amount to keep your symptoms at bay - I never needed more than 2 pumps per day. If I were you I'd start with the one pump per day for at least a month and then increase a little after that if you feel you need it - you may find one pump works well.
Getting those scary flushes under control is important - the oestrogen should start to kick in within a week or two, it can take a bit of time for the oestrogen level to build up.
Don't think about the risks - they are very small in comparison to the benefits.
I had time out from HRT for 3 years after the scares back in 2002 - really not a pleasant time. Eventually went back on HRT for a few years and now at 57 I'm taking another break to see how things are.
Keep us posted about you progress.
Kathleen - on this site, I think we tend to be a little harsh towards those who choose not to use HRT - it is a very personal choice. We are all so different and our experiences vary greatly. Sadly, to many of us have been the victim of gloating women briskly pronouncing that they "don't know what the fuss is about" - they are the lucky ones who sail through with few problems.
As I mention above, I am taking a break from HRT at the moment (though I am using Vagifem for Vaginal Atrophy) and I am not particularly keen to go back on - it will depend on how I feel. Like you, I am 57 but I have been post meno since my mid 40s and my experience of being without HRT was dreadful last time. I am now 2 months without full HRT (I reduced the dosage slowly over 6 weeks) and so far the flushes haven't been toooo bad - however my hips are aching dreadfully !!!!
You comment that you expect the symptoms to have subsided after 3years but I'm afraid it can take much longer - everyone is different. You say you tried HRT but it didn't work - what did you try? If I go back on HRT I'm going to try Utrogestan with patch or gel to get the long term benefits. DG x
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Hello Suzyq.
I often ask myself why I'm not on HRT as the benefits are obvious really. I suppose that I am concerned that if I have to come off it at 60 anyway I may as well plod on now and hopefully come out the other side. On a good day that is an easy decision to stick to but on a bad day I do wonder.
In some ways I am doing well as my flushes are minimal and I don't have any aches and pains. My issues are emotional and that is causing me a lot of distress atm. I think I will get Christmas and New Year over with and then see the GP to discuss the future.
Wishing you well and I hope your new regime does the trick for you.
Take care.
K.
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Hello Dancinggirl.
I am most definitely not one of those women who sail through menopause but now that the flushes have subsided and I sleep at night I wonder how much HRT I actually need. Also I mentioned that so far I don't have any muscle aches or stiffness my issues are now solely emotional.
I tried Climesse earlier in the year to see if it helped with my anxiety and although it did take the worst of it away I was left with lots of breast pain and increased irritability. When I asked the doctor if I could try something different he prescribed Evorel 25 patches and Utrogestan 100, but I have yet to try these.
I think the problem is that I came to all this a bit late, had I experimented with HRT years ago I would have a better idea of what suited me and be more confident about continuing. Hey ho.
Having said all of the above, I reserve the right to change my mind at any time! Who knows, slap on a patch and whoopee, New Year, New Me! Could happen...
Take care and wishing you well.
K.
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Hi everyone! God it's such a relief to be in touch with people who understand - sort of sick of my family rolling their eyes every time I tell them how bad I feel!!
I am English but have been living in montreal for the past 6 years. I was offered pill form of natural progesterone (prometrium) but as I am diabetic and have hypos didn't want to worry about being out for the count in a deep sleep at night. Luckily my insurance pays for compounded stuff and from last test, I at least have some progesterone now! I also like being able to adjust it very easily.
My specialist has started me at 1 pump, for at least 2-4 weeks and said I can increase to 2 after that. I was reluctant only cos I feel I'm gonna start rattling soon with all the stuff I'm on, insulin, blood pressure tablets, vitamin b etc etc. I only got the bp with all the meno stuff especially he hellish anxiety and panic attacks.
Kathleen - all I know is that my mum came off hrt last year at he age of 68 - she just kept forgetting to take them, and had no symptoms! She resisted all efforts to get her off before then and she has hbp and smokes (hbp is controlled I hasten to add). She also has the energy of a 35 year old so much more than me as I'm around a 80 year old ATM....
Thanks so much for making me feel welcome! Gotta say no side effects yet and I actually feel really happy today. Probably relief at just getting on something after 5 long years
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Hi Kathleen
I wasn't implying you were one of the ladies who sail through the menopause - I'm sorry if it sounded like that - I was just generalising.
I'm not surprised you had problems with Climesse - quite a high dose for our age - none of the pills I tried suited me. I'm sorry to hear you are struggling emotionally - I think this side of meno is often overlooked. It's great to hear your flushes etc have subsided - I do hope mine subside more quickly this time. It could possibly be wrong for you to use HRT at this stage as it may not help the emotional symptoms. However, it's good you have a GP prepared to let you try other options and allows you to choose the road you take. I believe we have so many things to be anxious about at our age and coping with them can be really challenging. Understanding & supportive friends and family are really needed at this stage in our lives.
Good luck with your journey - have a great Christmas. DG x :hug:
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Hello Dancinggirl.
I didn't mean to suggest I was offended, if you see what I mean! I figured you were generalising so no harm done.
Interesting what you say about Climesse and it being too higher dose for our age, I hadn't thought of that.
On the subject of dosage I'm sure bodyweight as well as age plays a part. I take a probiotic called Symprove which stipulates different dosages for different sized people and I've just halved the amount of vitamin supplement I take as the recommended dose was making me constipated.
I agree with you about lots to be anxious about at our age, just when you need to be a bit more adaptable mother nature decides to crush your energy and shred your self confidence! So not impressed.
Take care and I hope your Christmas goes well.
K.
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Well day 3 of estrogel and I've gotta say I feel just great. I don't know if it's too early to be working, but I have gone from headaches all day, depressed, just feeling blah to absolutely full of energy and genuinely happy and sociable!! Hardly dare say it in case I jinx it all. Can it really work this quick??
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Yes, I found Oestrogel worked pretty quickly - I didn't want to say this initially as, for some, it takes longer. The first thing I noticed was that I slept much better and my mood lifted.
Hope your good feelings continue. DG x
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Phew thanks so much. The specialist said this is going to make you feel great, and he was right! Almost too chatty after years of feeling so ill that I really couldn't even be bothered to talk much. Fingers crossed that it continues
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Well it seems like I was a bit premature as yesterday felt so ill all day. Hot headaches, feeling sick. Felt like I had a surge for a couple of days but now feel no better. Will try to stick out for a couple of weeks before increasing
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Hello Suzyq.
Sorry to hear you are not feeling good after a promising start. Hopefully you'll pick up again soon.
Are you sure it's hormonal and not the beginning of an illness? I only ask as my daughter has Norovirus at the moment so that is obviously doing the rounds.
Take care.
K.
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Hi Kathleen, god knows!
It felt like I normally do, very hot, headache, generally feeling ill, foggy etc. feel much more stable today so think it's probably just too early to decide.
How are you feeling? Are you still finding it tough, or having a good day? For me, that's the worst - just never knowing how I'm going to feel from one day to the next!!
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Hello Suzyq.
Only just seen your post so sorry for not responding sooner. Your comment about not knowing how you are going to feel is certainly true for me. I ducked out of a family get together today but when I was at home I felt okay and wondered if I could have gone after all. Infact I felt pretty good and thought maybe the vitamins I'm taking are having a super effect. Well, I'm sure you can guess the next bit, yep, I'm all anxious again just because we've had a phone call to say another family member is on their way to see us!
Not knowing from one day to the next is bad enough, but from one hour to the next is beyond a joke!
This whole thing is exhausting isn't it.
Take care and wishing you well.
K.
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Yeah I did mean one hour to the next!! I'm sure you will be fine once your visitors arrive - the anticipation is always worse than the actual event! Wishing you a very merry and stress-free Xmas. Today I am trying to be thankful for all the good things in my life .... It is absolutely exhausting!!
Susan
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Hello Suzyq.
You are right, the anticipation is always worse than the event and although some parts of my brain know that, other parts seem to think I'm about to face a life or death experience.
Thank you for your kind wishes and here's hoping your Xmas is a good one. Onward and upward we go.
Take care.
K.
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Montreal! :o do you have thick snow yet? The UK is expecting yet more blustery storms and in Scotland, roads have been closed early this morning due to snow - open again now but for how long ::)
Little steps. HORMONES >:( ........... keep posting!
How do you spend the Festive season?
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We have had two big winter storms in the last 10 days so yes we have more than enough snow - makes Xmas shopping interesting! I saw in the daily mail that bad weather was heading to uk!! How horrible over Xmas....
My eldest daughter is here from nottingham so we are all enjoying seeing her (especially my youngest teenage daughter). We go sledging on Xmas morning, but it is pretty quiet really with all our family in England.
Have upped my estrogel yesterday and it has stopped the hot flushes and headaches but I am still having some small spells of anxiety, although it was surrounded by thousands of people in the shops! I think it may 'wear off' a bit as the day goes on so maybe a patch would be better for me! God knows! Still muddling through and managed to stay at the shops for 4 hours after I breathed through the anxiety!!
Hope you all have a good xmas
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2 weeks now on estrogel and it has helped a lot with all of my symptoms. Headaches gone, more energy, less anxious, general feeling of blah gone! Even my blood pressure has come down so I have had to reduce my medication slightly.
I have noticed my heartrate has increased slightly and I've had a couple of very small dizzy spells? Not sure why, but probably just still settling in. Feel really a lot better and more stable
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... and with feeling better comes being more logical about symptoms ......... so don't rush into things because you are beginning to feel better, otherwise you will use up energy your body is producing. Little steps .......
Sledging on C.mas Day, how Lucky is that ;D
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Well actually couldn't sledge as was way too cold to stand about outside so made do with a 40 minute walk. Hope the storms didn't destroy your xmas
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Hi Suzyq and welcome
wow, what a recommendation for estrogel you are, I'm very tempted to ask GP for it. I only use Vagifem and ovestin as I dont have much in the way of hot flushes, headaches though I am very moody. But then I think I always have been a bit that way inclined so am not sure whether HRT would help me.
My main problem is having a cystocele and a rectocele for which I am currently getting physio advice. If I had major meno symptoms I'd be on HRT like a shot believe me!
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Hi milliemoo
Just trying to write about my experiences so that others going through it may have a bit of confidence. With the anxiety that meno brings it's hard to be brave about trying thing - I know cos I was pretty scared to try the estrogel! It's not perfect for me yet, but it is very early days, but I have definitely had far more really good days than bad! I was having constant headaches and these have completely gone and I generally feel much brighter so am overall happy so far. I also am pretty moody but I was getting extreme mood swings where my family was scared to come near me! These, thank god, have now evened out!!! Still getting some spells of anxiety, but they are lasting an hour or so rather than all day.
I don't know what your symptoms are but I think you can tell pretty quickly whether hrt is gonna help or not.
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Give the medication time to work. It can take 3-4 months before we realise that we feel well again ;)
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Thanks clkd!
I am trying to remind myself of that but it is sooo hard to be patient! I don't know that I would have had the courage to do this though without the people on this site, so a big thank you to all and a very happy 2014 to everyone!!
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Hi Kathleen, I have just seen your post about having a bad Christmas day, and the one on this thread about cancelling family get togethers, I am just the same, so many times I have cancelled things and then thought, oh I should have gone. I got myself in such a state about people coming over Christmas, even my close family, but it wasn't quite as bad as I had expected, and apart from a few wobbles, it was ok. Like you the emotional side of all this is the worst for me, and never knowing how you are going to feel is terrible. I never plan things now for that reason, and like you get in a panic if I have something coming up- or if relatives want to visit etc. We both sound very similar in our experiences, I too tried HRT last year, but it just seemed to make the anxiety/lowness worse, and now I am off it the flushes and weird adrenaline rushes , and sense of dread that come before them have got worse.
The anticipatory anxiety is awful and I can sympathiz fully with how you feel. It is absolutely exhausting :( Thinking of you, and big hugs, Magsxxxx
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suziq- hoping things improve for you soon, thinking of you and sending lots of hugs your way :hug:xxx
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Hello mags.
I agree that we do sound alike in that we are the same age and having similar menopausal experiences. My children are also grown up although at 24 and 21 I think they are younger than yours. I had a few not so bad days but now I'm back to feeling on edge all the time with palpitations etc. I just want it to end so that I can plan things for the future without the worry that I'll have to cancel events or soldier on feeling terrible.
At times like this I wonder if I should give HRT another go but I'm concerned that by the time I've given it a good try I might be nearing 60 and have to come off it anyway, so then I think maybe I can ride this out. The whole thing is exhausting and the uncertainty about the future adds to that. Utterly fed up with this and you have my sympathies on this horrible journey.
Wishing you well and take care.
K.
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Hi Kathleen, my children are 33, 30, 25 and 23, so yes older than yours apart from Lucy my youngest. It really is horrible to feel this way all the time, especially when it carries on for so long. I really think that anxiety and depression when severe is the worst feeling ever, I have thought about suicide in my most desperate times as I just want respite from it. Do you still wake with the blind panic / anxiety and terror feeling, I do, and I hate it. How long have you been having symptoms for?
My spells of anxiety/depression as you know were on and off for around eight yrs, with my cycles and carried on when my periods stopped, but then I would feel ok in between This last yr it has been constant :(
I understand how you feel about HRT, I would be reluctant to try it again. Have you considered increasing your AD? It may just help, you never know. I am with you all the way in how you feel, it really is hell to go through, and especially when you have a few better days, then wham it starts again. Hoping that things improve for you soon and hang on in there! Love Magsxxxx
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Hello mags.
In answer to your question, yes I still wake with panic/adrenalin surges and mornings are my worst time. This all began really when my periods suddenly stopped three years ago. I noticed after a while that these horrible feelings would occur every two weeks, so I had two weeks respite, however from the end of last year they became more intense and constant and in May 2013 I tried HRT for about three months. I took Climesse but it didn't really help my anxiety and depression and made me more irritable so I have done without since. The anti-depressant I take is Venlafaxine but I'm not sure how much it helps. I also thought about ending it all as I felt I couldn't live with these horrible feelings.
I understand you are having CBT and I'm also having therapy/counselling to try and help cope I suppose. Also I know what you mean about feeling better ( I start to think yay, I've come out the other side) and then wham, back it all comes again.
When all this is over (and older women tell me that day does eventually come), we should award ourselves a medal.
Wishing you well and sending cyber hugs.
K.
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Hi Kathleen, your symptoms do sound identical to mine, especially with them being constant this last year. Have you thought about going back to your GP to see if they could suggest anything else for you to try, or maybe ask to be referred to a menopause clinic?
I have decided that when all this is over I'm going to throw a huge party to celebrate, and give out
medals to all fellow sufferers, including you ;D
Sending you lots of love and hugs, Magsxxxxx
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Hi mags and Kathleen
Hope you're both feeling a bit better now the stress of Xmas is over.
My anxiety started exactly the same way - cyclical, every time I ovulated for 2 weeks. After 3 years finally established I had no progesterone so was put on that and it did help. Once estrogen ran out though was having pretty much constant anxiety, especially if I had plans and had to do something. It really is a terrible thing and completely changed my life but fighting my way out of it. On days when it's really bad I take a lorazepam, just to get a break from it, but haven't had one now for a while.
Still struggling on with hrt but with being in peri I suspect the few hormones I have left are still going mad.
Please invite me to your party mags - we will make it an all night one! We will get through this, I really believe it and just have to focus on the small victories every day. At one point I couldn't even get to the end of my street and now I force myself out every day for at least an hour. I'm sure you both have things that you can now do that you couldn't before, but it's so easy to focus on our failings, especially when we have a bad spell. My therapist is good at reminding me of my successes - 2 steps forward, 1 step back but we will get there in the end!
Wishing you both the very best in 2014
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Hi Suziq, yes , am very relieved to say goodbye to Christmas, took the tree and decorations down today and had a good clean up, so felt better afer that. You will certainly be invited to my party, no doubt about it, how strange that your symptoms are like mine, cyclic and then constant, with me it is certainly lack of estrogen causing problems, especially after stopping HRT.
Hoping that you get some relief soon, and it's good that you are having conselling, I have my CBT again next week. We will get through this awful time and be stronger people for it ;)
Lots of Love and hugs, Magsxxxx
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Yes my house is Xmas free now. Got rid of the tree on Saturday, was soooo happy to see the back of that! First day on my own at home after the holidays, so was totally freaking out at the thought of that, but so far ok - it's only 8.30 though so that may not last! Back at gym now so that gives me something to focus on. How are you doing? Is the medication kicking in yet? The minus 30 weather we were having seems to have gone for now so it's a bit more pleasant to go outside which is great.
Hope you're having a good day
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Hi Suzyq, I am not feeling too bad now thanks, have been to get my hair done this morning so that has given me a boost. I have my CBT appt tomorrow, so am hoping it goes ok.
You have done well to get to the gymn, I need to do something like that, I do a dance fitness class one evening a week , but haven't been for ages due to the anxiety etc, so I must get back to doing it soon.
Minus 30 degrees is cooooold :o You must be relieved that things have warmed up a bit ; wishing you well, Love Magsxxx
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Well I'm still on the fence about the estrogel. After a couple of good days at increased dose of 2 pumps, I am getting symptoms such as feeling warm, nausea, headaches and just a general blah feeling. Seems to take forever after I put it on for it to take any effect and even then it's not making me feel great. Had a consult with heather and saw my specialist and on both lots of advice have been given estradot as they feel it may be more even. How long should I wait before I start to apply? Had estrogel at 7 this morning. Also have been given estradot 75. Is this roughly the same as 2 pumps of estrogel? Thanks for any help anyone can give
Susan
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Oestrogel-I am off to read up!! Thanks ladies!
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Hi SuzyQ just something that you need to make sure of and I am only mentioning this as I was also using a compounded Progesterone @ one stage, but mine was very weak and did not bring on a bleed & my gynae advised me against it :( You need to have a bleed at least every 4 to 6 weeks if you are taking any form of Oestrogen, in order to keep your womblining thin, so just make sure that your compounded progesterone does this for you or you will have to switch to Utrogestan. I find the Utro gives me insomnia, so hopefully it does the same for you as you were worried about it putting you in a deep sleep, it doesnt do this @ all for me. It is still very early days with the gel, I would give it time, I have been on it for years, it seems to take a while to sort of build up in your system and reach a peak where the circulating levels are similiar to those that you had before meno, that is the ideal situation, so hang in on the 2 doses, I would give it at least 3 to 6 months and try to ride out any symptoms as it really is one of the more friendlier HRT's that you can have, all the best. x
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Thanks Cassie
I'm trying to just hang on but it's hard!! I did actually change to prometrium (ultrogestan) to make sure I was getting the right amount of progesterone so I'm really hoping I get a bleed - just finished that part! Am sticking to 2 pumps with a little bit extra in the afternoon, but my symptoms are all over the place and I was awake all night with dizziness again - this was one of my main symptoms when peri first started to hit. I will do well to get to work today ...
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Hi SuzyQ
Try to be patient with the Oestrogel - I used it for many years and it was great because I could adjust the amount to keep symptoms at bay. I'm a bit confused about what you have been given! - Are you using Oestrogel and a patch? This could be a very big dose if combined together! I suspect you are meant to use Oestrogel or the Patch - not both. I found I got dizziness and felt very strange if I took too much oestrogen! I was on one pump of Oestrogel for some years in early peri meno and then increased to 2 pumps when I was clearly into full meno. Some ladies need as much as 4 pumps per day.
If you are peri your hormones will still be fluctuating and even after your periods have stopped if takes a few months to a year for the oestrogen level to bottom out. 2 Pumps per day is still quite a low dose if you are peri and the other ladies are right about it taking a little time to build up in your system.
I used to use 2 pumps daily in the morning and applied it to my inner thighs - make sure you let it dry before getting dressed as well (about 5-10mins). If after 4 weeks you are still getting bad symptoms then increase by half a pump per day for the next 3-4 weeks.
Many ladies love the patches but I'm not convinced they give a more even dose - when I tried them I seemed to get a big surge in the first day which made me feel dizzy and then it tailed off quite quickly over the next couple of days. As we keep commenting on this site - "we are all different". If you are using Utrogestan you will probably be fine regarding protecting your uterus.
You have had a bad time of it and I think you need to relax not expect HRT to fix everything straight away. Good luck DG x
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. Hi everyone and very happy to have other to commiserate with. I'm 56 and started to have hot flashes about a year ago but manageable. Started oestrogel and 100mgs of micronized progesterone for 15 days a month in July. It took awhile to kick in as my gyn in France is conservative and told me to use a pea size drop of the gel. Helped a bit but then I increased to one pump per day and then, one and a half every other day. That helped, but I had sore breasts and some bleeding so went back to the silly pea size pump. Anyway…I decided to go with one full pump now per day since January and STILL have miserable soaking hot flashes at night. I also have just been diagnosed with a frozen shoulder, and since Christmas have felt so low and depressed and in a thick and uncomfortable brain fog that I can't escape. Sleeping is really a problem between the pain of the shoulder and the sweats so all is compounded. Can anyone give me some clues about the best way to increase the gel effectively? I use it on my inner thigh. Should I switch thighs each night? What about using Utrogestan 200mgs instead of 100mgs? Guess that would protect my uterus a bit better. This is all so overwhelming. I know it's natural and everyone goes through it, but it really does seem so brutal! HELP
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In my humble opinion, a pea size dose of gel is not enough to relieve the symptoms. I would go up to one and a half plunges of the pump, I use one full plunge, then just a little curl of the next pump, I alternate legs, doesnt matter where you rub it on the legs, sometimes the buttocks, ocassionally the inner arm, stay away from breast area, but I just use the legs, it is taken up on the hair follicles as well and remember, it takes a while to build up in your system to a circulating level of oestrogen, which will relieve your symptoms and offer bone and heart protection, so I would up the dose and after a month, if you still feeling lousy, go up to 2 plunges which is the recommended dose. Utrogestan 100mg for 15 days should offer adequate protection of your uterus if you are not using more than 2 plunges per day, I found the 200mg very heavy, it gave me terrible tinnitus as well, but what I recommend is, that if you are not using the standard dose of progesterone, which is either 200mg for 12 days of the month, or 100mg for 25 days of the month, that you just have a uterine scan every 12 to 18 months which gives you a very good indication as to whether the Utrogestan is doing its trick and keeping the lining nice and thin, remember to go for the scan just after a bleed which is when, your Dr will get the most accurate reading. All the best, the gel, if used properly is great but you are using too little to help you feel good :) with all due respect to your Dr and you should use the gel every day that is why you are getting a bleed cos you are not using it consistently. I miss one day and boy I breakthrough bleed, so annoying but your body needs a constant uptake of the hormone.
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I agree with Cassie. Use at least 1 pump per day and possibly increase to 2 pumps a day.
Try 1 full pump per day for 4 weeks and if symptoms have not subsided increase by half a pump to one and half pumps for the next 4 weeks and so on till you feel you have the right symptom relief. AS the oestrogen builds up you may find one pump will be enough but I always used 2 pumps per day. You may need to use Utrogestan for 25 days per month if you up the Oestrogel dosage OR use 200mg for 12 days per month and have a withdrawal bleed. Some women prefer to have a bleed each month. Good luck DG x
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Hi Suzyq Don't be alarmed by symptoms you get after stopping the prometrium - maybe dizziness, or headache, tension, foggy head etc. I always get this - normally starting the morning after the night I have stopped the dose if you see what I mean. It is a physiological response which contributes to "normal" pmt and is sometimes referred to as progesterone withdrawal. After a few days when the progesterone levels have fallen I always feel OK again and sometime around then I get my bleed.
jakavi
:welcomemm:
You definitely do not need 200 mg utrogestan to protect the uterus lining from build up of oestrogen in a tiny pea sized blob of gel! Great advice from Cassie re regular scans - this is the only way to really tell if you are having sufficient progesterone to protect the lining, if you deviate from the licensed dose.
Hurdity x
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Thanks dg and hurdity. I tried to find papers where it said that the estrogen builds up over time but couldn't! I'm not on the patches only the gel, so don't worry I'm not overdosing. The patches only lasted half a day - he gave me very strong ones and I decided for the meantime to stick with the gel and try to get consistency with that. I am now using 2 pumps in morning and an extra half after lunch to try to stop the blips mid-afternoon. I will definitely stick it out and am getting hormones checked in February but I suspect I need a little bit more. Will give it 4 weeks dosing as I am before changing. Last night was the last dose of progesterone, so not looking forward to that as I know I feel terrible without it, but hopefully only for a few days, if I have a bleed!
Again a big thank you was so down yesterday but more optimistic today ...
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Ok so have been on estrogel qnd progesterone for 5 weeks now and after a couple of adjustments along the way, am now on 2 pumps of estrogel in morning and a further half after about 6 hours. Hot flushes, if you can call them that (for me it was bp spikes, head rushes, spinning vertigo) have gone for the moment. Anxiety vastly improved - only at about 10per cent now versus a solid 80% before. Having some symptoms after stopping progesterone part (terrible yesterday but less bad today) and bloating which I got during progesterone part seems to be going away (thank god cos I was looking a little bit like Michelin man). No bleed as yet but only 2 days since progesterone stopped and am getting cramps, so hopeful. Just wanted to share this for anyone thinking of, or just starting hrt!!
Other positives are that blood sugars are very stable and I am generally needing less insulin, and blood pressure is also very good with no spikes!
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Good news SuzyQ. Now things are improving, may I suggest you stop the extra dose you do in the afternoon - I suspect you don't need it.
I'm sure over the next 2-3 months as you get used to the regime you will feel much better.
DG x
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Hi dancing girl? Can I ask why you think I don't need it? I'm only doing that as only 2 pumps was giving me bad symptoms by 3 in the afternoon. These were relieved by using the extra bit in the afternoon. Everything seems to be working ok but I am happy to try without extra 'bit' but unsure about changing dose, up then down then up again if symptoms start coming back.
Hurdity - thanks for your experience about the symptoms after stopping progesterone! It did help me and now when I'm dizzy, I remind myself why and that it will pass in a couple of days (although people must think I'm drunk, staggering down the street)
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Hi SuzyQ
I'm delighted you are getting a good result. It was just a suggestion about leaving out the extra bit in the afternoon. As far as I'm aware, nobody needs to do more than one dose a day of Oestrogel - it's no different than taking the pills in terms of consistency - I suspect you were getting symptoms in the afternoon because it was still an early stage of using HRT. Perhaps try 2 and half pumps in the morning and see how you feel in the afternoon. I was just thinking that it was a bit of nuisance to have to do this extra tiny bit of gel later in the day when it was probably not needed. Now your symptoms are more or less under control and your oestrogen level has stabilised you could also try just 2 pumps per day to see if you really need that extra bit. The general consensus is that women should use the lowest dose that keep things comfortable thereby reducing any possible side effects. You have been feeling rotten for so long - try to relax and enjoy how good you feel now. DG x
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The recommended, average dose is 2 pumps per day which delivers 1.5mg of Oestradiol. I use one and a half so am probably getting, I would guess, about 1mg per day, not sure how that compares to the dosage of other HRT? But do remember that transdermal is a more direct delivery route than per mouth, however, as I have said before, it does take a while for the oestrogen to reach a circulating level in ones body that is enough to relieve most sypmtoms. Give it time still and you should be hunky dory on just 2 pumps, why dont you use it at night rather, or do you prefer the morning? I cannot go less than one and a half pumps, start getting horrible symptoms :(
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Thank you dg and Cassie. I will try just 2 pumps and see how I get on with it! I use it in the morning because that's what the dr told me to do and changing now would be too complicated for me to figure out. I do appreciate your advice - it's very helpful when you're just starting out on something and unsure about it all. With regards to dosing more than once per day, I think quite a few ladies do this (on other sites) but it is a bit of a pain so will be very happy if I don't need it!
Susan
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Hi
I've never used gel but just quoting from the SPC for oestrogel
http://www.medicines.org.uk/emc/medicine/19898/SPC#POSOLOGY
...which says
Each measure from the dispenser is 1.25 g of Oestrogel. The usual starting dose is two measures (2.5 g which contains 1.5 mg estradiol) of Oestrogel once daily. In the majority of women this dose will provide effective relief of menopausal symptoms. If after one month's treatment effective relief is not obtained, the dosage may be increased accordingly to a maximum of four measures (5 g which contains 3.0 mg eastradiol) of Oestrogel daily.
It later says:
Patients should be advised not to apply two doses at the same time.
I would infer from this that if you have more than two pumps ie more than 1 dose then the remainder should be applied at a different time (I presume approx 12 hours between the doses??) and I imagine this is to avoid a spike and sudden fall in serum oestrogen levels??
Hurdity x
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Well I tried just 2 pumps but after 10 hours symptoms were coming back! Put my extra half dose on and all was well. For now am sticking to my current dosing as it seems to be working for me - feeling very good indeed!!!
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Hi just an update. Switched to estradot 50 yesterday. The gel was just too unstable and it really felt like I was rubbing on water rather then estrogen. I was aware that I was already at 2.5 pumps and the flushes etc were coming back with a vengeance. As stated before, it really just didn't seem to last a day with me. Been on estradot since yesterday morning and much more level so far. I was prescribed 75 but that was too high for me when I initially tried. I had a bad headache yesterday and racing heart last night at 10pm but apart from that I feel ok. Headache gone today and feeling much more stable than when I was on the gel.
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Sounds good SuzyQ - hope this continues well. DG x
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Thanks dg. Me too!
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So, 6 days on patch and I am having some minor blips each day - not terrible so far, but no major ups and downs like I was experiencing with the estrogel. What I do notice is that on patch change days, it takes 5 hours from putting on new patch, to get back up again. Does anyone else have this? May be just because it's early days yet....
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Well symptoms back with a vengeance since last week. Had estrogen tested yesterday and came back at 230. According to specialist this is a bit low?? So patches upped to 75 with a further increase to 100 if symptoms do not subside. He will re-check levels next month.
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The body does take time to adjust because hormone levels are already depleted before we go for treatment ;) at least you know that treatment does help!
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Hi clkd
Yes it does help! Already my levels have improved from 18 to 230 so that's great. Hopefully things will get better in the next few weeks as have been having non-stop symptoms and for some reason spent most of yesterday crying... Feeling a little brighter today and have managed some cleaning. Hoping to treat myself to a sip of wine later
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Hormones ::) ……….
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Just an update. Haven't posted as have had 2 weeks of a absolute hell and don't want to pass my negativity and depression onto others. Am on estradot 75 and have had non-stop symptoms, headaches, dizzy, brain zaps, chronic palps, internal shaking and no sleep for 10 days. For some reason, symptoms have abated over last 2 days and I feel much better, but am frankly terrified of them all coming back at any moment - currently still counting good times in terms of hours rather than days. Off to Florida on Sunday - first holiday in 5 years and so scared that I'm gonna be ill the whole time. My only backup is ativan which I haven't taken in the last 2 weeks as am determined not to rely on these - sometimes I think I'm too stubborn. Am authorized to increase to 100 estradot but just feel that any further changes won't do me any good (you may remember I've changed from gel to patch) anyway today, so far, has been good. Hope you're all doing well as reading your stories gives me some hope that this will all get better soon...
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Hormones are awful when they fluctuate. Have you copies of the prescription for your journey. Hopefully you will enjoy your holiday!
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Thanks clkd. No I don't have copies, do I need them? Just don't want to ruin it for my hubby as he has had to put up with so much and deserves a fabulous vacation!! Sometimes it's hard to stay positive
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Hang on in there Suziq you will get the right balance eventually, hormones fluctuate all the time so it isn't an exact science!
Just try and let go of the worries when you are away and enjoy the holiday.
Take a list of your medications prescribed by your GP if you have a repeat prescription list or make sure you have the medication in the boxes with your name & address on so show they are yours, take them in you hand luggage. Normally only strong pain medications are an issue if you are travelling. Keep a note of what the tablets are called, dosages etc just in case you lose any and need to get some when in the states. Or just not worry about it!
Have a great time
Lubylou
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Thanks lubylou - you're so kind - gave me a little lift! Fingers crossed will be well enough to have a good time as am booked to play 6 rounds of golf!!
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Well had an absolutely fab time in Florida - wasn't ill at all and felt just like my old self. Am now back on progesterone part - ultrogestan - and feeling bloody awful again. Prior to using ultrogestan was on specially compounded progesterone cream 60mg twice a day and was fine! Don't really understand why the ultrogestan is making me feel so bad. It is also bringing me out in a red rash (not itchy). I delayed taking progesterone by 1 week until I returned from holiday but don't want to be feeling like this for 12 days out of every month!! I think, I can take maybe every 6 weeks? But not sure of this? Anybody know? Otherwise I will have to go back to specialist and see if I can change back to compounded stuff. On a good note seem to have settled in well with estradot75
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Hi SuzyQ
Glad to hear you had a good holiday!
I can't remember what country you are in? However progesterone creams are not considered sufficient progesterone to protect the uterus lining so this would not be recommended - and especially not that dose I would say.
Are you taking the Utrogestan orally and is it 200 mg? The leaflet I got from the French manufacturers suggested that the dose could be split into 2 x 100 mg twice a day for those who find 200 mg give bad side effects. Taking vaginally can also minimise side effects and a lower dose can be used - although this is probably not the best way if you are in a relationship as 12 days per month is quite a lot! However you can play around with the dosage and length depending on how you take it and preferably under the guidance of your gynae/menopause doctor.
It is so difficult to tell how much progesterone is needed for each individual to make sure the lining doesn't thicken which is why it is usually only the private gynaes or menopoause clinics which prescribe variations (eg longer cycles). Ideally you would need to be scanned reguarly, if for example you increased the cycle to 6 weeks.
Glad the estradot 75 is working though!
Hurdity x
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Glad you had a great time and how lovely to feel 'well' ………… sorry it didn't last, HORMONES :bang: :bang: :bang:
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The cream is formulated to give me 120mg per day which he said would be sufficient for transdermal absorption. I am using ultrogestan 200mg vaginally at night. I tried to split it and felt so ill during the day that I couldn't face that again. I am not sleeping with it and feel crappy with palps etc until it wears off. All the symptoms seem to point to too little progesterone! But the though of having to take anymore makes me ill. I, in canada and they're really into bio-identical compounding pharmacies here! Perhaps scanning may be the way to go for me (insurance pays for it anyway), or maybe I will just become accustomed to it with time.
Thanks for your advice though - I will give it some thought.
Clkd - it is lovely to feel well again!! I am so much more steady and stable on the patch as opposed to the gel. Without the progesterone malarkey I feel like my old self again .... Naples was gorgeous and made coming back to the snow and minus 25 a bit more bearable although we arrived back to a car at the airport with a flat tyre! Not much fun changing that without any coat or gloves as we were dressed for Florida still ...
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Glad you had a good time :yipi:
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Hi again suzyQ
Just to say that if you are taking 200mg vaginally - that is definitely more than need for a monthly cycle. Although there aren't official (licensed) reduced doses available for vaginal use, preliminary research shows that far more progesterone gets to the uterus lining than with oral ingestion - due to the uterus first pass effect ( it gets there first before go9ing elsewhere). The private gynaes who prescribe a variation of the standard dose would prescribe half this for monthly vaginal use ie 100 mg per night for 12 nights max.
I am on a 6-7 week cycle and use 12 days x 200 mg vaginally and that is ample to shed my lining.
Hurdity x
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Thanks hurdity - that's useful information. You really are full of knowledge - who helps you out with queries though?!?