Menopause Matters Forum
Menopause Discussion => All things menopause => Topic started by: Noheroicsplease on February 26, 2017, 08:09:58 AM
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Hi all,
I seem to dip in and out of periods of intense tiredness. I'm not even sure it directly correlates to how much sleep I get - although, of course, I do feel better if I've had a good night.
This past week, for example, I have had a touch of lurgy, but I feel like a soldier in the snow. Dragging myself around. I go to bed early, I don't drink, or eat sugar, I've not exercised this week because I felt like I needed rest - and today, I could go straight back to bed for another long stint.
It's been this way for what seems like ages. And I've tried lots of things. I am a 'doer' and I still do a lot, but it's such an effort.
I know this is a really difficult symptom of menopause. But what do you all do to manage it?
Thanks all
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I don't know what the answer to this one is. I'm in my 60's but increasingly over the past few years have intense tiredness in the mornings to the extent that I can barely move without my two cuppas ( commented about this on another thread!). I feel like this whether or not I get up in the night and in my case is worse after exercise - I feel eg after an intense exercise class or gardening - although I do feel like this every single day. I still feel foggy headed and sleepy until about mid-morning although I just get on with stuff. By the time I'm at the evening I am wide awake and fine.
In my case I am sure it is either something metabolic or hormonal but I am on HRT, testosterone, my thyroid is fine and I have a good diet with the occasional supplement of cod liver oil/iron tonic so not vitamin or mineral deficiency as well as plenty of exercise.
Sorry that's not much help - I don't really manage it - just aware of it - but as mine is usually confined to mornings then it's not a problem. Other than check what you're eating and taking the odd supplement as I do (cod liver oil every few days, ditto iron tonic - only small amounts to top up if necessary). Also this time of year is the worst for feeling like this - and if you have been ill - it does take a while to recover. If you have a strong constitution (you mention a touch of lurgy) then maybe this is your body fighting off the bug - so you are actually still under the weather - rather than completely succumbing to the bug?
Do try to take a little exercise if you can - unless you are still unwell because at least the physical tiredness is better than that awful tiredness due to lethargy which is really debilitating. Perhaps get outside in the fresh air and have a quick walk in the wind!
Sorry that's not much help is it - but I know it's not just age - but something else. Doc was no help. Just said it's age and then suggested fibromyalgia for aches and pains so I didn't pursue it.
I hope you gain some energy soon :)
Hurdity x
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I sympathise with this Nhp! I had a terrible day yesterday, feeling exactly the same. Too early to tell today. It's like walking through treacle. In my case I'd had two really sleepless nights, but there's not always a known cause. Sometimes I can be out of bed for an hour in the morning & by the time I've had shower, I'm shattered. Wish I knew the magical answer.
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Hi noheroicsplease,
Do not underestimate the power of the lurgy!! I rarely develop colds, literally haven't had one for years but I can usually tell my body is fighting something because my glands go up and down. However, I seem to have been fighting a lurgy off and on since end of November.
I finally succumbed last week for two days of heavy swollen glands all round my throat and neck and total exhaustion, too whacked to even climb into the shower one day! Since then, whilst fine during the day everything swells in the evenings and early mornings. Lots of friends are complaining of similar symptoms, there are clearly some really dodgy viruses doing the rounds that are exhausting us!
I'm a morning person, up with the larks with bags of energy but nowadays start to flag in the evenings: I find if I keep on going I'm fine but as soon as I stop I conk out!! If I sit to watch TV I'm inevitably out for the count within half an hour!
I eat really well, do lots of walking, know I'm not lacking nutritionally but I definitely don't have the energy levels I once did. I was like a human dynamo, now nothing more than an aching creaking relic!! ;D
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After many years up and down I now listen to my body and ride it out. Fighting it always made it 10 times worse.
I forget I am nearly 60 and wonder why I can't keep going like I used to ::)
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Could it be silent migraines? I get them triggered by my hormones (high oestrogen at the moment, not sure if low will also trigger them when I get to that stage).
I'm got my hormones under better control so I only get small moments now but the lethargy was so exhausting and trying to push through it just made me more exhausted. It feels very flu like where you feel weak so I wonder if it's to do with blood flow diverting to the brain away from our muscles?
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Wading through treacle covers it well, as does crashing fatigue. I remember my Mum sitting down and suddenly falling asleep :o in the middle of chores or preparing veg. for our evening meal. She would sleep heavily for a couple of hours.
My head feels heavy most mornings and I am reluctant to get out of bed, once up and moving that feeling goes. I know that my medication makes me feel 'hung over' ....... for me it's getting my 1st cuppa and some breakfast inside me, then I improve. I can drop to sleep in the evenings too if the room is warm.
Listen to your body! If your brain wants to sleep, sleep - you will still sleep in the night. Do keep hydrated as tiredness can be caused by the body requiring hydration.
Do you drive?
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Hi,
I always had the morning tiredness and perimenopause has definetely aggravated it, but right now I feel other type of tiredness, more insidious and it's affecting my immune system, each day a new annoying symptom, pains, foggy head, flu, general discomfort. I was wondering if the change of the season can have a direct or indirect role in this. When I was a child my mother kept a disease diary for me and my siblings (she was a nurse and a migraine sufferer) and she noticed a seasonal pattern not just for infectious diseases but for general malaise, she included. She talked with her fellow nurses and patients about that and they noticed the same pattern.
To answer your question, I don't manage at all! I had a lot of insomnia last year and felt extremely tired in the mornings but now I'm sleeping a lot and still feel complete lethargy in the mornings, so it's not lack of sleep (may be bad sleep quality?) The morning anxiety has almost disapperared but I'm afraid it's just been replaced by morning depression :(
Sorry, no help really!
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I've never been a "bundle" of energy type of person so these days the middle aged tiredness is even more pronounced!
I go through phases of getting the fatigue, what's annoying is that during the morning I could quite happily go back to sleep but by the evening I've perked up and not tired at all! Due to some late nights and being busier the last couple of weeks, the tiredness is now hitting me so I spent yesterday trying to stay awake but then was feeling fine last night and found it difficult to drop off...grrrr!
I also wonder if sometimes mine is caused by a bit of dehydration as once I've had about 3 cuppa's in the morning I start perking up. The other thing I've not been in the sun so much the last couple of weeks and wondering if my Vit D levels have dropped a bit. One year I was tested at the end of summer and they were low!
I've got a fitness band which monitors sleep, not sure how accurate it is but the more deep sleep I have (which is supposed to be good for you) the more heavy I feel in the mornings. Really struggled to wake up this morning but the mornings are now getting darker :(
It's really annoying as very rarely do I ever feel full of energy and if I have a big day, I'm pretty shattered the next. Just need to win the lotto and lie on a sunbed by a pool all day lol.....
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How is your blood pressure? Mine is low (90/50) and I find there are times of the day that I get hit by tiredness, for example after a meal recently I could just fall asleep... I read that hydration is really important, (like Wombat's tea), so have been having the suggested two glasses of water on getting up, and it does seem to help, a bit.
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The other thing I've not been in the sun so much the last couple of weeks and wondering if my Vit D levels have dropped a bit. One year I was tested at the end of summer and they were low!
In the UK the sun isn't strong enough to top up your Vit D levels in Feburary - only between the end of March and the end of September between 11am and 3pm does it make a difference, and only then if your arms are legs are bare with no sunscreen. Living in Glasgow and working full time, that doesn't give many opportunities for me as you can imagine! I think we should all take vit d tablets.
I have periods of feeling really tired, but it isn't as bad as it was in early peri. I don't know if it down to taking vitamin d, or taking iron supplements, or being in a different stage. I certainly don't get those feeling of being totally wiped out any more thankfully. So hard to know what to do when symptoms are so random, isn't it?
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this time last year, when I had my 6 monthly thyroid check my endo checked my vit D and it was 37 (cut off point 50). I took a low dose vit D supplement and went out in the sun uncovered for 10 minutes twice a day. At my check in September it was up to 60 so it responds quite quickly. I expect it will be down when it is checked again this month but I cannot tolerate high doses of vitamin D in the same way I cannot tolerate calcium supplements. I ended up in the hospital with hypercalcaemia so I have to be careful balancing everything.
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Thanks all. Interesting replies!
My thyroid is fine, I've got good levels of Vit D, even though I do take a couple of drops a day and it's present in Accrete D3, which I also take.
I also added in an extra pump of estrogel last night - I was only doing 1 a day, in the morning - and today I feel surprisingly cheery. Even managed to do a 20 min HITT home work out.
I think drinking water is key, and it's something I don't quite do enough.
I guess, though, what I'm hearing is that it's something we all struggle a bit, to various degrees, and that I need to not fight rest!
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nearly50 - I read over the weekend: of course I can't remember which Sat. paper the statement was in and can't be bothered to wade through the Council recycling bin: but it stated that in the UK, if the persons' shadow is longer than the body there isn't enough sunshine to gain VitD. Well I disagree. I' ve had brown hands/arms/face as early as March as I get into the garden at every opportune moment when the :sunny: so have gently browning skin throughout the year. When I walked the dogs several times a day I was brown all year round ....... so I must be gaining VitD as I am not short of it ::)
Crashing fatigue is known during The Change >:( ......... good thinking about having thyroid function tested!
Don't fight what your body is trying to tell you, however, when people are employed it's difficult to ask your Boss to allow you 40 winks ::) though I did fall asleep over my typewriter and my Boss used to say "I'll man the 'phones" bless him :-\
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nearly50 - I read over the weekend: of course I can't remember which Sat. paper the statement was in and can't be bothered to wade through the Council recycling bin: but it stated that in the UK, if the persons' shadow is longer than the body there isn't enough sunshine to gain VitD. Well I disagree. I' ve had brown hands/arms/face as early as March as I get into the garden at every opportune moment when the :sunny: so have gently browning skin throughout the year. When I walked the dogs several times a day I was brown all year round ....... so I must be gaining VitD as I am not short of it ::)
It is UVb we need for Vit D and we don't get that in the winter sun because of the angle the sun's rays hit the earth at. I don't think having brown skin is an indicator, in fact the paler your skin is the more Vit D you absorb.
That's great you have enough VitD anyway - what level do you have, out of a matter of interest.
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:thankyou: I've never required testing so have no idea ......... your info is useful to me, I'm learning stuff every day on here ::)
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:thankyou: I've never required testing so have no idea ......... your info is useful to me, I'm learning stuff every day on here ::)
I always used to think I got enough from my holidays abroad, as I didn't realise that you need to be out without sunscreen.
Some think a lack of vitamin D is one of the reasons for the high incidence of MS in Scotland.
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Hi ladies,
Regarding vitamin D, I live in a tropical country with plenty of sunshine and yet all menopause knowleadgeable doctors here (there aren't many but they publicise this a lot) are adamant that in menopause we need extra doses. Unlike vit B12 that is stored (levels can me maintained for up to 5 years in the liver), vit D is not stored (only small amounts in fat tissues), thus the need to keep a good daily intake.
XXX
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regarding supplementation you need to make sure your supplement contains vitamin D3 (cholecalciferol) rather than vitamin D2 (ergocalciferol) :)
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Another 'tired' one here. I can't really say tired in the need to go asleep sense, just more of a weak and weary feeling constantly. Muscles feel weak even though still have full strength if you know what I mean. I feel off balance a lot and spacey with it too. Never been a morning person and it's getting worse the older I get. I am the brunt of family jokes about it i.e. On family holidays they know not to expect me to be fully functioning until at least mid-morning. It does get me down a lot as going out the door at 8:00am four days a week is a nightmare and when 4pm comes, I'm done in but don't get home till 6pm. My daughter says "Mum, why are you so tired....you're 60 for God's sake, not 75" ..... never any understanding or sympathy there as usual! When I go to Drs about it, it's always put down to 'anxiety' as is everything else. There are 60 year olds running around like 20 year olds out there which is depressing!! I took Vit mega dose last year but can't say it made any difference. Am I doomed to feeling like this now for the rest if the time I have left?? I can't do exercise because it makes me feel even worse and even scrubbing the shower made me feel faint the other day and then I start worrying whether there's anything seriously wrong with me.
Menomale, I definitely think mine is part seasonal too but I'm still not running around with joy come Spring either. I just feel old and worn out. My therapist says I mustn't think like this but it's hard when every day is such an effort isn't it?
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JustJules - have you had a thyroid function test recently? Are you lacking iron? Hydrated enough?
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Justjules, I agree that you sound even more tired than I feel! It would be worth doing the tests that CLKD suggests, and take into account that the doctors have a wide 'normal' bracket for most tests. If you're at the lower end of iron, for example, i'd def take a supplement.
I think there is a huge problem with how tiredness is perceived, especially in women. I don't get much sympathy for it, even though I still pack in a lot, despite feeling like I'm wading through tar some days. But I think tiredness, as a menopause symptom - or hormonal imbalance symptom, because I can remember some months during PMT feeling like a zombie - isn't taken seriously enough.
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Yes ladies, have had full bloods and thyroid checked, all supposedly 'satisfactory' ...... new term they seem to use nowadays but no idea what it means!
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Hi ladies,
Justjules, my thyroid results are also "satisfactory", within normal ranges, but my previous gp (a naturopath) insisted that the levels are not optimal for a healthy person and wanted to put me on thyroid drugs asap.
I was not comfortable with the idea of taking more drugs when, in theory, I don't need them and was afraid that my thyroid would shut down for good and not produce hormones anymore. I don't know if this is a real risk but I decided to wait until the levels dropped below the "normal range". They haven't yet, still same levels from 3 years ago, confusing...
Re tiredness, I have noticed that I am caught in a vicious cycle and my body/mind is adjusting to this "change" which I think is menopause+ageing... and I don't like it! Maybe some acute measures are necessary to break this pattern (ADs, a personal "menopause" trainer, moving abroad, changing jobs and so on)
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Well if we we in America, we would be treated on borderline, which probably equates to satisfactory! I would take anything to get rid of this feeling. I take ADs and have done for years and they keep me level but don't work on the anxiety really. I too think I could do with a complete life change as stuck in a pattern of Groundhog Day and rut but feel too weary and not right to do much about it.
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Sometimes I feel that my lack of motivation is the root of my tiredness, no projects, no dreams, no faith in humanity. Is thiis depression?
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Snap, me too. Not really interested in doing anything and sad about stuff like humanity and society in general.....gosh, pair of miseries aren't we??!! ::)
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We should start a club... ::)
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I could sleep for England today .......
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Ha ha good idea! I'm sure we wouldn't be short of members... ;D
CLKD, that's just the thing, I don't feel 'tired' in that way, just bloomin zero stamina or strength. Keep doing a bit then sitting. I am off work for a couple of days on annual leave. Been trying to organise my mind and try and make sense of how I am feeling and what the hell could all this be down to. My mind goes unto overdrive with thinking!
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I had busy dreams which always makes my head tired although the rest of my body feels fine ::). I find that making lists each evening helps me tick off to see what I actually achieve!
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Just scrubbed a potato for baking and wiped round the sink and came over all weird, all up arms and then a not well feeling and then panicky....do you think it could be heart??? Surely I should be able to scrub a potato.....happened when I was rushing to clean the shower sealant before going out the other day....felt 'wave' like faintness and then had to rush to loo....worrying silly now.... :'(
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Just scrubbed a potato for baking and wiped round the sink and came over all weird, all up arms and then a not well feeling and then panicky....do you think it could be heart??? Surely I should be able to scrub a potato.....happened when I was rushing to clean the shower sealant before going out the other day....felt 'wave' like faintness and then had to rush to loo....worrying silly now.... :'(
Sounds just like a rush of adrenaline to me- I get this a lot often with a flush to follow- I've had countless ECGs and have decided that if it was my heart something would have turned up by now! All I can say is that I stopped worrying about it so much when I was diagnosed with cancer, which tells me that most of it was down to the worry I was adding into the mix.
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It really does all sound like hormones to me, remember pregnant women get really exhausted too.
The motivation goes hand in hand as the hormonal imbalance causes the brain to want to deal with emergencies only.
I've now topped up (or built up enough of) my progesterone levels so only need it for Days 14-28, which I then feel the good effects of in the early part of cycle when was always my worst, and my weakness and motivation are so good, better than last 20 years I'd say.
I still don't understand if it was the imbalance triggering migraines which then triggered the symptoms or if it was some symptoms from migraines and some directly from imbalance. When I've had symptoms though I'd always had a feeling of pressure in my head and the dizziness, nausea, lethargy and lack of motivation (similar to with depression) all happened at the same time.
Best to always have ecg to check no heart issues though as the symptoms are similar because adrenaline is being triggered in both circumstances.
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Hi Coldethyl, well I've been getting the rushes for a good while now but why would it do it when I'm exerting myself?? This was worse than the others and I desperately want to do some very light exercise.
Yes, definitely in worry mode all the time as usual and no matter how I try to go with the flow, something else pops up.....nothing to what you're coping with though, so thanks for responding. :thankyou:
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Dangermouse, had ECG not long ago and all ok it seems.
Is there anything you can recommend to take or do? I'm waiting on intensive CBT.
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I know it's easy for me to say but doing some light exercise would probably help - I found doing some exercise bike stuff actually reduced my rushes and racing heart x
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JustJules - stop rushing around the tackle chores in a leisurely manner. It's probably an adrenaline rush, 4 me it's like hot water coursing through my veins, scared me when it first happened! Now I know that it will go, that I haven't dropped dead and it hasn't got worse - in fact now that I recognise the sensations I'm not bothered: unless I'm travelling ::)
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I know it's easy for me to say but doing some light exercise would probably help - I found doing some exercise bike stuff actually reduced my rushes and racing heart x
Ha, even if I feel like I'll keel over.....then bring on one.
CLKD, I haven't got a rush in me nowadays! Wasn't rushing scrubbing the potato!!
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Dangermouse, had ECG not long ago and all ok it seems.
Is there anything you can recommend to take or do? I'm waiting on intensive CBT.
Hey, if you can find something to rebalance your hormones, so that the source is being dealt with, and then the CBT will be great to rationalise your thoughts so that emotional anxiety isn't adding to the physical anxiety.
If there is a tachycardia (over 100bmp at rest) this makes exercise contraindicated as your hormones are already giving you a workout, so raising the heart rate even higher will make you feel breathless. However, if it's emotional then exercise will bring your heart rate up in line with your mind and you will feel more balanced.