Menopause Matters Forum
Menopause Discussion => Personal Experiences => Topic started by: cheekygal on August 01, 2014, 09:00:24 PM
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I have been having these internal tremors since starting an AD back in May, I discontinued the AD 12 days ago but still having the tremors, has anyone else experienced this as a menopause symptom? It seems to be 24/7 lately and my head tremor which I have had under control for years with propranolol and 2mg diazepam has also started again. As it happens it was after taking AD's many years ago that the tremor started, Neuro said it was either essential or dystonic tremor. I have read on here one other lady having the latter.
A friend who is also in peri has been getting the internal tremors also but not daily, like I have. Which is why I don't know if it is meno or something else.
I feel so alone as I am a single parent and don't have any other family. Over the last 2 months have became more or less housebound. Stuipidly I spend too much time crying or googling which probably isn't helping things :(
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Hi cheekygal - I can't help with the tremors I'm afraid but just wanted to send you a hug and say that you are not alone tonight.
Taz x :hug:
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Hi cheekygal, :hug:
I get the internal tremors too - just my abdominal muscles and only when I'm at rest in bed.
I've been peri for about 3 years but changes have really ramped up in the past year.
Stay away from Dr Google - never qualified as a doc!!!
Which AD were you taking and when you stopped, did you taper the dose or go cold turkey?
Galadriel x
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Hello cheekygal.
I also experienced internal tremors but they were more like a jittery, butterfly type of feeling so I'm not sure if it is exactly the same thing. I had them all day, every day but they would magically disappear about 9pm in the evening only to begin again the next day. After six months of this I saw my GP, began using HRT and the fluttering stopped after two weeks so they were certainly hormone related, also in her book on Menopause Dr Miriam Stoppard describes these sensations and notes that they are very common.
I'm not sure how all this helps you atm but I wanted to say I know how horrible these feelings are, that they are a part of the menopause and that HRT does help.
Wishing you well and take care.
K.
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Thanks for your replies, I had a feeling it may be hormonal although it only started about 2 weeks into the AD's, it's starts in my legs and works up, I also have random muscle twitching too, again since the AD's, however had they been responsible I would've thought that would've went on discontinuing them. It was mirtazapine I was on 30mg, persevered with them for 4 weeks but couldn't tolerate the side effects, went down to 15mg for a couple of weeks the one every other day, been off them 12 days now, first week wasn't too bad, but this past week has been awful, terrible anxiety and depression, today been extremely bad as been having horrible thoughts and it's scaring me. I can't take any other types of antidepressant as had really bad experiences with them in the past, as mirtazapine is in a class of it's own that's why I agreed to try it.
I have consindered HRT but again the side effects worry me, I was offered Premique but their side effects include anxiety and depression!
I am getting really desperate now, never once did I think menopause could be this bad :(
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I think that you may be suffering from withdrawal symptoms cheekygal as although you weren't on the drug for that long you have stopped it fairly quickly. This is a guide as to how to withdraw safely http://www.greenspiration.org/drug/articles/Withdrawal.htm If your "horrible thoughts" are suicidal ones then I think you should go back to your GP as soon as possible for some more advice. Do you have anyone there with you?
Taz x :hug:
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Yes Taz I'm afraid they are that thoughts, no here on my own. My GP said if I won't take AD's then there is nothing else he can do. >:( Even saw a CPN who suggested low dose serquel even though I am not bipolar, those side effects are awful to. I realise everything has side effects, but I can't take things that make head tremor worse and unfortunately most of those type medications do aggravate it. It's been fairly stable for past 15 years.
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I developed a head tremor after taking Sertraline for 2 days and ended up at A & E in the early hours of the morning. That was 2 years ago. I did not continue with the AD'S as they made me feel like I was going mad. My anxiety was so high that it took me a year of constant exercise (walking) and pushing myself to get a grip on stuff. I learnt not to dwell on things and if I found my mind dwelling I would make myself get up and do something in order to break the cycle. I visited quite a few health professionals and also paid to see a neurologist who diagnosed my dystonia. I had never ever had a tremor before in my life. Sometimes if I am stressed it is very apparent but I am coping well with it these days. I am still in peri meno and still suffering anxiety and depression but I manage it fairly well these days. Like you I cannot tolerate AD'S and my advice to you would be to learn how to relax (fully) read some books on mindfullness. Dont fear the internal tremors as they wont hurt you, the more you fear the more they keep you in the cycle so learn how to relax when they start. Check your diet and dont overdose on caffeine and processed food. Can I ask how long have you taken diazepam? are you still taking it?
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I've been taking 2mg diazepam for around 10 years and had no problems, however GP increased this to 10mg per day which I feel is too much and have been taking 5mg, not helping that much at all now, more so since I stopped the AD's. It took me a long time to recover from trying multiple types of AD's 25 years ago, in fact I was agoraphobic for many years and attributed that to my intolerance of them. Yet GP still insists I try 'newer ones'.
I had a look at the link you posted re withdrawals Taz, I guess it's possible that is what is making me so down these past few days. I just keep wishing the day away so I can sleep, or at least try to. It's so unfair :(
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Sorry for the delay but I have been away for a few days.
When my anxiety was at its highest I was told to take 2mg diazipam 3 times a day but it simply was not enough. My GP said to up it to 3, 4, or 5mg 3 times a day which I did and for about 4 or 5 days it slowed me down enough to get a grip on being able to function. I was on the verge of agriphobia and I knew if I didnt get out of the house I would never recover. I also took propanolol. after a week or 2 I felt a little like a zombie so I slowly cut down on the diazipam and just stayed on the propanolol for a few months untill I felt well enough to battle along alone. Withdrawal from diazipam can be awful as can AD'S. There is a method of withdrawal called 'the ashton method' which can give you a good insight as to how these drugs can be slowly taken down and eventually kicked for good. Its a slow process but in my opinion its the best way. Hope you are feeling a little better xx
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I went back to GP on Monday and she told me it was unlikely to be AD withdrawal or hormonal, and referred me for CBT! She also told me to up the diazepam to 5mg 3 times daily. If it wasn't for them I too would've became agoraphobic again, I've been managing with taking it only twice, but still can't see a light at the end of the tunnel as yet. I don't want to have to depend on them to live normally, although I have heard that some people have taken them for years with no problems. Yes I have read parts of the Ashton Manual, and agree it would be the best way to cut down. Even though I wasn't on the AD's for very long, I maybe did stop them too quick.
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There is a light at the end of your tunnel even though you cannot see it right now, it just takes a little time. You need to try and concentrate/focus on 1 day at a time and try as hard as you can to see the positives in your day no matter how small or irrelevant they seem. I feel that diazipam is a great drug in the short term, your body and mind needs a rest so let the pill do its job and dont push yourself. After a little while you will be stronger and can manage your own withdrawal at your own pace and with the Gp's help and supervision. Baby steps are your way forward. I dont know your age or meno status but I truly do believe that hormones are responsible for these horrible feelings we get and I actually felt I was going mad !!! I then found this site and my relief was huge. I also feel menopause is a time to care about yourself much more than you ever have in your life and stop trying to help all and sundry, we are not superwomen. CBT is very good and in the meantime build some relaxing exercises into your day, dont skip food and keep as busy as possible. This will lift xx
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Thanks so much for your kind positive comments Everyone's Mum. The way I felt at the weekend has left me a bit jangled I must admit, but trying with the help of the pills, hopefully I won't need 2 - 3 per day for ever.
It really infuriates me when someone says, you look fine, how can there possibly be anything wrong with you, or you just have to snap out of it. I want to slap them!
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Your very welcome :)
I doubt you'd need the pills long term, just at the moment while you are having a blip and if they are working well then use them as a crutch to get thru this period.
CBT can teach you how to ignore the comments of others and is well worth doing a course but I will say you need to find a therapist that you are at ease and can connect a little with. x
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Yeah I agree that's you need to have that connection with someone to get on. I had a really great CPN many years ago who I got on great with. I imagine I will have to wait some time for this as it's on NHS.
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Hi cheeky girl I am having hypnotherapy and hypno analysis ( where you talk back during hypnosis) and finding it helpful just to talk but I am paying for it. If I waited for help from my surgery it was a phone call consultation sometime late in August. This can't be good enough can it? My employer also offered counselling but I had to travel a bit to get it so didnt bother. A lot of employers do sonthatbmight be something you could look into.
Anxiety is the hardest thing I have ever had to cope with and my heart goes out to you. I tried all the alterntives reflexology etc but in the end I have started citalopram simply as I felt my family deserved me to get back on track a bit quicker.
It's still the first week so I am a bit sicky but hoping I will see a change soon. Have you emailed dr currie about the tremors she is a great help
Sending you lots of hugs xxxxxxx
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Hi Kelly, I did consider hypnotherapy but can't really afford it and employers councelling isn't an option I'm afraid. I will just have to wait for NHS CBT.
No I haven't emailed Dr Currie as yet, as I'm not sure the tremors are a meno symptom, not many others seem to suffer it. Lately it seems to have been more in my feet and legs, especially at night when I go to bed.
Hope the AD's help you, I just can't tolerate them, tried many over the years.
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Well I feel so sick on them this first week I am beginning to wonder if they agree with me ! Hope you get your appointment soon. Pester them a bit !!
Love Kelly xx
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Think the first few weeks are the worst on any AD, you should know by about 4 weeks if they are going to suit you. I am back at GP on 25th so if not heard anything by then will ask him to push it on x
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Sorry to be a pain, I just feel this is the only place I can come where people understand.
I am still having the shaking thing going on, I had really hoped it was down to withdrawal of the AD's, but it's been almost 4 weeks now since stopping so can't think that would still be the case. Woke up this morning and it was that bad, I felt that I had been on a week long alcohol bender! Still only taking the 2 diazepams per day, however there were a couple of days I only took one, maybe I need to stick to the 2 x daily and not mess around with the dose as did have one or 2 not so bad days last week. The pills are helping with the anxiety but I still feel the shaking and muscle twitching.
I have considered emailing Dr Currie for advice but thought I would give it another week or so just to see how things go as I can't really afford the fee. I am still getting periods but very erratic, been 2 months since last one. Joint and muscle pain is another newish symptom, especially in my left shoulder blade and under left boob and arm (think I mentioned this in the acid reflux thread).
Like the rest of you ladies, all I want is to feel like myself again. It's little things that most people take for granted, like popping into town, going out for tea, cinema etc. For many of us that is either so much effort or not at all. >:(
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alot of my tremors and muscle twitching were caused by my 'out of control' anxiety. My head would flick/jerk quite violently and it scared the pants out of me which added to my anxiety. Here is how I see things, the anxiety is built up adrenalin caused by worry and the adrenalin causes the tremors ect... If we get rid of some of the anxiety by exercising our symptoms ease up. In a nut shell we need to do whatever we can, starjumps, aerobic step, running on the spot, dancing (firm favourite of mine) and all these can be done indoors. If you can muster the strength then you could go out for a 30 min walk, every day when its bad and reduce to 3-4 times a week after a few weeks. Dont sit and dwell on these tremors, dont fear them as your mind sounds very tired and it needs some calm. The diazipam is your crutch but you need to balance it by trying to shake off (quite literally) this dreaded anxiety which is trying to cripple you.
Do you read? xxx
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I used to read, but don't seem to have the patience at the moment, and the only things I have been reading is the dreaded google which is probably fueling my anxiety. Admittedly, I do tend to dwell on symptoms, I am so fed up of wakening up feeling like I have drank a bottle of vodka the night before. Part of me does believe it's anxiety, but another part is saying something else, ie meno symptoms or still a bit of AD withdrawal. My head tremor was worse when it first started, but has remained fairly stable over the last 15 years despite having many stressful situations to deal with. It's the whole body inner tremors on top of this that is getting me down. Being out of the house does help, but unable to walk far due to oesteoarthritis in my foot, which I have had for 26 years.
Thanks for your reply, not many others seem to have this symptom, so I guess I have to accept it's not meno, oh dear I do seem to be going round in circles, sorry to moan so much. I shall try to be more positive. Would you believe I used to be a counselor for people with anxiety disorders, lol! Not always easy to practice what we preach though ::)
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When you get a chance try and get a copy of 'the chimp paradox' by steve peters as its a superb book on mind management especially anxiety.
Have you been doing too much over the past year? as you sound tired. I think menopause is a time to delegate and look after yourself alot more. In my opinion your internal tremors sound like another anxiety symptom probably fuelled by peri meno and AD withdrawal and they can be worked off slowly. I am sure you probably already know that dwelling on things just keeps you in the anxiety circle so this habit needs to be broken by doing something else everytime you notice you are dwelling again. Only you can do all of these things.
My head tremor is going to be with me for the rest of my life according to my neuro and I can now accept that. When it first appeared and I discovered it was related to AD'S I wasted a year fretting and refusing to accept this nodding headed woman ;D I was so angry.
Keep posting as its a great help xx
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Hello ladies.
I thought I'd add a bit more to this thread about how hormones contribute to internal tremors/jittery sensations.
I've quoted Dr Miriam Stoppard's book before and here is what she has to say on the subject:
"For many women, menopausal mood changes resemble a roller coaster ride. Women describe subtle sensations such as trembling, fluttering, unease and discomfort. More severe feelings of anxiety or panic can arise with little provocation. Tasks that you used to be able to tackle can leave you in total disarray. Mood swings from elation to despondency are common. Your patience is easily exhausted. The future may look hopeless, your self-esteem is precipitous and you may feel truly depressed.
The centres in the brain that control a sense of well-being, a positive state of mind and a feeling of control and tranquillity are affected be the absence of oestrogen. Taking oestrogen supplements in the form of HRT can cause a dramatic return to normality."
Throughout the book she champions the use of HRT, saying it is unfair to expect modern women to live so much of their lives in a hormone depleted state. I think she is in her late sixties now and when I saw a photo of her a while ago it is clear from her appearance that she is up to her ears in the stuff and why not?
I accept that other factors can contribute to these feelings but I am convinced my jitters are caused by hormones and I must say there is absolutely nothing subtle about them.
Hope this information of help ladies. Wishing you all well.
K.
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It certainly makes a difference to me and one year after stopping it I am still suffering all the meno symptoms I was seven years ago when I started HRT. Hoping my doc will let me have a low dose patch especially now that I don't need progesterone following the hyster.
On her site Dr Stoppard has this to say about HRT - nothing about whether she uses it herself though :-\
"Hormone Replacement Therapy (HRT)
The single most effective tool available is HRT. This can replace the oestrogen deficiency so that the symptoms disappear.
HRT is more than 90 percent effective. If you feel your doctor isn't being very helpful or sympathetic, or won't let you try hormone replacement therapy, seek an opinion from another doctor.
What's a natural menopause?
Not all women should take HRT, nor do all women want to. My main contention about the menopause is that all women have the right to the menopause they want.
In other words they should be free to exercise all the options available and that includes foods, vitamins, herbs, yoga, aromatherapy, exercise – in fact anything which helps to make them feel good"
Taz x
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Not sure she is up to her eyes in the stuff, she had hers eyes done and mini facelift which she has written about
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-2252011/Can-believe-Im-75-Shes-eye-lifts-strict-year-diet-For-time-life-agony-aunt-Miriam-Stoppards-happy-looks.html
Her book on menopause was written in 2001 it may have been updated. She is along time advocate of HRT and has taken it but have not found any info as to whether she is still on it.
You can get her HRT: Hormone Replacement Therapy by Dr. Miriam Stoppard on amazon for pennies.
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Hi cheekygal.
The only thing I can advise on is the diazepam. Keep on a stable dose every day.
Try to take as little as possible. It's an awful drug to get off, the ashton method
is too harsh for many people, you may need to cut down slower , they can in fact
make you more depressed.
Ann x
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Miriam Stoppards explanation of meno is very good and I so wish I could take HRT but sadly I cant which is why I have put my heart and soul into trying the natural route. When I am exercising (mainly walking) and making sure I'm eating well I feel very much like my old self but if I let it all slip then I slide back down again. I do hit 'down days' but they lift and I recognize its my hormonal devil at play, it is like a rollercoaster. Diazipam has a place in all this for some of us who hit the bottom and cannot get back up, it can be a life-saver but only short term in my opinion as it is extremely difficult to wean off.
I hope your a little better today Cheekygal xx
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Thanks for all your replies. I have read so many conflicting stories about diazepam, it is in fact the mildest out of all benzodiazepines, many people take it long term with no problems and while I don't like taking it, I feel it's been a life safer for now by keeping the anxiety down enough to enable me to go out, though I can't say it's doing much for the tremors, which are now 24/7, that's the main thing that's getting me down, I feel them all over from the soles of my feet, arms, chest you name it and it biuzzes/vibrates and twitches! Kathleen is that how you would describe them? I agree they are not subtle, very distracting and irritating. I am currently taking 2 x 5mg per day, don't want to take any more. I am not going down the AD route again, that was awful. So for now I will continue with the diazepam and will reduce slowly when I feel I can.
Everyone's mum, have you ever been offered botox for head tremor? I was years ago but decided it wasn't bad enough for that. I could always ask again and ask them to stick a bit in other areas accidently, haha!
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I was offered botox but have decided against it for the moment. My main problem with my head tremor is when I go out for a meal as its the eating/sitting in a restaurant thats a pain and sets it off but I manage.
When I took AD'S 21 yrs ago for postnatal depression I had that internal shaking/fizzing throughout my whole body. I learnt to ignore it and used to sit on my hands when watching tv in order to block it out xx
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Hello cheekygal.
My experience of the tremors is a bit different to yours I think. I get them in a very specific point in my stomach, I can feel the tension and jittering all the time and it is very distracting. Sometimes I feel I could cut the area out of me, it's that intense. Other times I just want to shout at my body to stop the sensation, even if it's only for a while. I agree it is very distracting and makes you feel nervous all the time. I have noticed that by the evening the sensation will go and my stomach then feels okay but I have to wait until 8 or 9 pm for that to happen.
The whole thing is exhausting and I'm so fed up with it. I've been reading your posts and I see that you are taking Diazepam, does that help at all? If it does I may ask my GP to prescibe some for me.
You have my sympathy as this is a rotten thing to go through so lets hope it ends soon.
Wishing you well and take care.
K.
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Yes Kathleen the diazepam does help for a few hours, I also try to get out and maintain as 'normal' a life I can with the help of the pills. I tend to be more aware of them if I am sitting, or lying down, I guess dwelling on them doesn't help. Morning is the worst time, and like you find around 9pm they settle down, only to start up when I go to bed and waken up.
I have mentioned diazepam in a few of my posts, I came across an article which I posted on here somewhere entitled another interesting read. While I am aware this is an addictive drug with terrible withdrawal symptoms, IMO if it helps certain people to lead a normal life then why not take it. The article I posted relates mainly to people with panic disorder who do actually need these drugs long term to function. I find I get on better with them than I do AD's, (which I believe made me agoraphobic years ago) we are all individuals and what suits one person may not suit another.
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I agree and also believe AD'S almost made me agoraphobic. I have had to take AD'S twice in my life after a bout of tearfulness and once I start taking the tablets I end up in an agitated state that can only be relieved by diazipam. 20 yrs ago I managed to stay on them for 6 weeks and it was during that time I had the internal tremors although I used to call them 'my fizzing'. 2 yrs ago I was only on them 2 days and I wont ever take them again. I have no fear of using diazipam but I would only want to use it short term if I ever feel the need.
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That's interesting everyone's mum I have had 2 weeks of citalopram and still feeling awful. I feel it's harder to go out now in these than it was with just the anxiety . Standing in queues make me awful! I have 2 2weeks in now and really hoping for some improvement .
KELLY x
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Kelly, that is exactly how I felt on the Mirtazapine, hardly able to go out. I did give them 7 or 8 weeks, but they weren't for me. I am now 4 weeks off and able to go out a lot more these past 2 weeks, still using the diazepam, but I was taking that alongside the AD. Just left with this horrid muscle tremors/jitters/quivers. I actually thought they had subsided today, as went all day hardly feeling them, but it wasn't to be sadly. Tomorrow however is another day :)
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AD'S have side effects and one of them seems to be Heightened anxiety, if we already have anxiety then they add to to it. Diazipam, taken alongside AD'S for the 1st week at least can help and side effects of the AD'S should improve with time as your body adjusts. GP'S can help most people over the initial settling in period. Sadly I cannot take them again xx