Menopause Matters Forum
General Discussion => New Members => Topic started by: panda123 on February 14, 2016, 10:32:04 PM
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Hi again everyone.
I ve found so much wonderful information on this site and thank you all. I came across Prof Studds name over and over and decided to Google him. It was like finally, after 30 years of misery, coming across information that made sense to me. All the symptoms he described as progesterone intolerance that I have suffered over the last 30 years were all there! I have been on Femoston 1/10 for 8 days now and so far the oestrogen only tabs seem to be keeping the terrible anxiety and depression at bay. I am now dreading starting the grey pills as they contain progesterone :'(. Does anyone know how long the waiting list for Prof Studd is approximately? I would mortgage my house if I thought he could bring me some peace from all the misery I have suffered all my adult life.
Panda123
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panda123 - If you had problems with the progesterone in BCPs this won't necessarily mean you will have issues with the progesterone in an HRT. Femoston has one of the kinder progesterones so you may well be fine - so please, please don't look for problems.
Studd only seems to use Utrogestan but, as I've experienced, it isn't always ideal - some women are fine on it but many do have issues like problematic bleeding, feeling sedated and disturbed sleep.
Try not to worry - practise some Mindful Meditation and enjoy all the benefits the Femoston is bringing.
Before spending loads on money on a visit to Studd just give the Femoston a try - you could well be pleasantly surprised. You can get the the Utrogestan with Oestrogel on the NHS from your GP if you really want it but you may need to take the info to the appointment as many GPs don't know about these types of HRT.
Dg x
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Hi
I went to see Professor Studd not quite 2 weeks ago and I only had to wait 2 weeks to see him plus he has another chap working for him. It's not cheap £300 for consultation and he charges £ 250 for bloods and the same again for bone scan. I got blpods done at home and got them quick by going straight to hospital to have them done. Bone scan my dr said I'm low risk and then Studd said I should have one which I wasn't happy about! I was fine! I have not been able to take any of the progesterones femostan made me depressed. I think you should ask your doctor for the bio gel and the utrogestan. He says take testosterone as well but you won't get that from your docs cos it's not licensed for use on women. If you could get the others from docs it's worth trying bf you pay out cos im not sure you gonna get any more out of him he didn't talk much and seems to just hand out his formula. The thing is he's good to go to if you not getting anywhere which was like me and carries a bit of weight when you go to your own Dr but you may get it at home so I would try it. Tell them who he is and what he recommends. I am going to ask to go on NHS waiting list for Nick Panay for the future as I don't have a problem travelling to London for treatment and our hospital is not great. Hope that helps
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Thanks DG.
I completely understand what you are saying and realise I am probably coming across as slightly hysterical and irrational. I have made an appointment with my GP for this afternoon and will talk things through with her and see what she thinks. I ll let you know what we decide.
Hi Kate50
Thanks so much for all the info you sent. As I live in Scotland I would have extra costs for transport on top of all the consult fees etc so it all adds up pretty quickly. As I mentioned to DG above I ve made an appointment with my GP for this pm and will take along all the info Prof Studd gives in his articles and see what she says. In my part of Scotland there are no Menopause clinics sadly so that isn t an option either. Wish me luck, I always feel as if I m going into battle when I see a GP - they just don t listen and need to get you out the door before your 10 mins are up!
Panda xx
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Good Luck. You can get referred to anywhere in the country for an NHS referral you know
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Panda,
As you live in Scotland, why not book an appointment with Dr Currie? She is in Dumfries, I know, not the easiest of places to go but cheaper than London.
Bramble
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I agree with Bramble - try to see Dr Currie. DG x
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Thank you very much Bramble and DG. Can I book an appointment directly with her or does it have to be a referral from my GP?
XX
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Ooops, just found the info on Google. Sounds like a great idea but waiting time of 8-10 weeks is not great.
Another question for you Kate50 - are you on the progesterone part for 7 days or longer?
xx
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7 days haven't taken it yet. Gotta wait 2 months. Been on oestrogen since September as cant take progesterone successfully but he didn't seem worried had an examination and said everything felt ok? ! I didn't want to wait any longer that's why I went but easy to get to London from mine.
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Panda123, You could wait and see how you get on with the progesterone part of your HRT but if it doesn't work out, I would waste no time in having a one to one consultation with a hormone specialist, I think you deserve that at the very least after suffering for over 30 years.
If you GP is helpful, fine but if not, don't hesitate to make an appointment with Professor Studd or another specialist.
I am severely intolerant to all types of synthetic progesterone and to Utrogestan (bio identical progesterone) if taken in large quantities even though I was never intolerant to my own progesterone or suffered with PMS during my reproductive years. I had struggled with HRT regimes that did not work for years and then I visited Professor Studd and he finally put me onto the right HRT regime.
The real breakthrough was changing from patches to oestrogen gel which made an enormous difference because I found oral HRT completely useless and the patches to be ineffectual because I had poor absorption, they didn't stick well and I just don't like going around with a patch stuck to my backside. Many women find Oestrogel to be a life changer, I certainly did. I also take 100mg of Utrogestan, a bio identical progesterone (vaginally) for 7 days each month and a tiny bead of testesterone every day.
Having been around the block and tried so many different types of HRT, this is the only regime that comes even close for me and I can honesty say I now feel back to normal and roughly the same as I did when I was 30 even though I am now 54. The only downside is the Utrogestan part but I keep that to a minimum and it seems to be working so far. Professor Studd always suggests that women who are severely intolerant to synthetic progesterone should limit their intake as much as possible and usually suggests 100mg Utrogestan vaginally for 7 days per month.
Good luck with the doctor.
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Prof Studds regime does work for some women but I must stress that it is not ideal for all. Taking any progesterone for such a short time (12 days in the recommend minimum dose) can bring problems. So Utrogestan at this low dose of 100mg sequentially, ( the licensed dose is 200mg for 12 days ) can result in the womb lining building up and then erratic bleeding becomes a problem - this is what happened to me and it's happened to others who post on MM. This is why this regime must be carefully monitored with regular scans - very expensive!!!!
panda123 - I really would give Femoston a 3 month trial - you may well be fine. Many women who have trouble with most progesterones actually do very well on Femoston. Do talk to your GP and ask for a referral which may take 8 weeks but by then you will have given Femoston a good trial so Dr Currie (or maybe another more local specialist gynae) could advice accordingly. I see an excellent gynae privately who is based in Norwich - he has been very patient, explaining everything to me and offering very good ongoing support - Prof Studd isn't the only specialist in meno, so going more locally is probably best - whether privately or on the NHS.
When you said before that you had problems with progesterone, you didn't tell us in what context? Was it as a result of BCPs or did you have bad PMT with you natural periods or PND after having a baby?
Dg x
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Thank you to all you lovely ladies who have replied to me. Here s what happened at the GP:
I had never seen this GP before so explained all my problems/worries to her. She admitted she knew very little about the menopause and asked me if I had any ideas of what I wanted to do next. I told her what I had read about Prof Studds regime and she was very interested in it and looked up the Oestrogel and Utrogesten in her book. She said it sounded good and did I want her to prescribe it so I could give it a try. She had problems prescribing it at first as, in her words "computer says no"! She said it is not recommended for Doctors in our location to prescribe it but didn t know why (perhaps it s more expensive?) She managed to over-ride the computer and gave me a script for Oestrogel Pump pack 0.6% gel and Ultrogestan 100mg caps 2 daily for 14 days. She wasn t sure how to transition between the Femoston 1/10 and the new regime and suggested I go off the Femoston, wait until I got a period and then follow the instructions in the leaflets of the new script. As far as the testosterone went she was flummoxed and had no suggestions. All in all I am left feeling very unsure and confused. :o
Does anyone know of any private menopause specialists in Scotland? I feel I really need to see someone asap and will deal with the cost somehow!
I can t really stress how scared I am to take the 2nd part of the Femoston DG. To answer your question about my progesterone problems, I tried to go on BCP s in my 20 s for PMS and had a severe depressive episode which lasted months and months. I then just put up with the PMS and it ruined my marriage and my subsequent relationship and I m now on my own. I had severe sickness throughout all 3 of my pregnancies which lasted until I was between 7-8 months pregnant and meant I spent months of all my pregnancies in hospital. The doctor told me this was probably due to too much progesterone which I cannot tolerate.
Thank you so much for your reply Mary G. As you have read above I still don t know what to do but I am so pleased you have found Oestogel to be helpful - one more reason for me to give it a go.
Good luck Kate50 - keep me posted on how it goes xx
Look forward to hearing if anyone can give me the name of a private consultant in Scotland - 2 months is such a long time to wait for an NHS appointment - I m worn out waiting for improvements!!
panda123 xx
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Well panda123 - it sounds to me as though you saw a very good GP - she listened and indeed gave you what you wanted. I'm not sure where you are in your menopause? How old are you? Were you still getting periods? Are you post meno?
What I would suggest re starting the Oestrogel and Utrogestan is this:
You say you are 8-9 days into the oestrogen part of the Femoston so that is fine. All you have to do is stop taking the pills and start using the gel till you have been using oestrogen alone for 14 days - so you will use the gel for 4-5 days before starting the Utrogestan. You can then just add the Utrogestan for the next 14 days - you continue to use the Oestrogel alongside. I would start with just one pump of the Oestrogel (they usually say 2 pumps but my gynae advises to start low and then increase to 2 pumps if the flushes are not under control after 4 weeks). The gel is a very efficient way to deliver oestrogen so one often needs to use less in terms of dosage.
I am concerned that you are extremely anxious and this could make you react negatively - do keep posting so we can reassure you. Do you practise any type of CBT or Mindful Meditation to help control your anxiety? You must bare in mind that there are many women who use HRT really successfully and until you try you won't know if it suits you.
You have been given your best option to try by your GP which is great - you really don't need to see a gynae privately at this stage - it is so costly and you probably won't get anything different. Don't despair, if HRT really doesn't suit you then an AD or SRRI can be a good alternative to control meno symptoms - here are the alternatives to HRT: http://www.menopausematters.co.uk/prescribed.php - my gynae recommends Citalopram as a good one to control meno symptoms. DG x
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Hi panda123
In addition to what has been said - and I'm not sure if this has been suggested elsewhere - but you can always have an e-mail consultation with Dr Currie which is only £25 - information on the home page of the website or under "contact" at very the top of this page (on the right in blue). If you give her all the information about yourself and your prescription and ask her whatever it is you want to know, those of us who have consulted her have found her to be extremely helpful.
The other thing is you don't have to take the utrogestan for 14 days - the licensed dose for a monthly cycle is 12 days. You could start with this and see how you get on. The usual side effects are sleepiness and foggy head, and perhaps feeling a bit dizzy - but if you are lucky this is all you will feel - and should be tolerable. Some of us take it vaginally (unlicensed) and then less can be taken but best to start with the licensed amount and take it from there.
When is your period due? The best way to transition between the two really is to take a whole course of the femoston - if it is already synchronised with your natural periods - but do I remember that you didn't start while you were on Day 3 but somewhere mid cycle? Basically you want to start the Oestrogen about Day 1 of the bleed if you can and hope you synch with your own hormones!
Good luck with it :)
Hurdity x
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Hi again
I started on gel straight away in his office! He wasn't concerned at all about the fact I had been on other stuff and hadn't taken hardly any progesterone in 5 months. Told me to stay in oestrogel only for another 2 months bf I attempted utrogestan and then only 7 days. I also had bad sickness in pregnancy but not as long as you! Never been able to take BCP either. I had one bleed back in November after trying to take femostan progesterone bit after only 3 days of taking it and I bled for a week.
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Thanks Hurdity - I will definitely keep the tele consultation in mind if I decide not to see a consultant.
Kate50 - that is all so interesting! Especially the bit about not taking progesterone for 2 months - bliss!! Please let me know how you get on.
Thanks everyone on MM - will keep you all posted on how its going!
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Welcome Panda
I'm another girl who can't tolerate progesterone. Long history of PMS. One brand of the Pill put me in a depressive state for a year. Had PND after my first baby. And since I turned 40 have been battling hormonal anxiety and depression all over again.
I totally 'get' how anxious and desperate you feel, because I get just the same. Unless you have experienced it yourself, it's easy to dismiss it as 'just feeling a bit on edge'. If only that was all it was!
You might be interested to know that I am currently trialing Femoston too. Last month I started on 1/10 and did fine on the oestrogen only tabs, but within 48 hours of taking the progesterone my anxiety and depression returned. I battled through the next 14 days feeling awful.
At the end of the 1/10 pack I swapped to 2/10, hoping the higher oestrogen dose would improve my reaction to the progesterone part of the pack. The first few days on the 2/10 were very up and down, but once the progesterone had cleared my system I felt great for the next 10 days. But, just like before, as soon as I started the progesterone the anxiety and depression returned. I battled on for 6 days, but felt awful again, so stopped the progesterone and started a new pack and resumed taking the oestrogen only tabs.
Lots of women do very well on Femoston, but I presume they are not very progesterone intolerant? I decided that if I'm so intolerant of the prog in Femoston then I'm very unlikely to get more tolerant over time. So I stopped taking the progesterone.
Also I found I was getting quite nauseous taking Femoston. So this morning I applied a 50mg patch and I will just use patches until I see Annie Evans in 2 weeks.
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Thanks so much for your message GypsyRoseLee. After some wonderful messages and advice from other MM members I stopped the Femoston 1/10 yesterday before I took any of the combined grey tabs as I was just too scared to take them as I was 99.9% sure I would crash into depression and anxiety again. My GP prescribed Oestrogel and Utrogestan for me and I started on the gel today. I will use it for a few weeks and then gird my loins and take the Utrogestan.
As you so rightly say, it is more than just a "low feeling" that progesterone brings on, its more like a crushing inability to function or have any rational thoughts. The word anxiety goes no way to describing the over-whelming terror and lack of being able to feel that life will ever be anything other than sad and painful, then as a double whammy the depression sets in and even going to the loo seems impossible. I have been dogged by these feelings since I was 17 (now 51) and been prescribed Ativan, diazepam, the old AD s (before the SSRI s came along), Prozac (nearly sent me mad), sleeping tablets, MAIO s, lithium - the list goes on. I have been on Citalopram for the last 18 years and it has kept the worst of my symptoms away until the last couple of years.
It has taken many many years for me to conclude my hormones were responsible for all this as it was always waved aside by my doctors (including psychiatrists) despite the fact it was always at its worse for 2 weeks after my periods. Only through talking to other women (many of whom suffer in silence because we are all scared of being thought of as psychos!) did I finally insist to my doctor that I thought it was hormonal. I know I ve got a long road ahead of me and still need to take progesterone to protect my uterus but I am hoping and praying that at last I might be on the right road to finding some peace from all the mental turmoil.
I am so grateful I have found this forum as it is proving to be a life-line with so many lovely people always willing to try to help and share their experiences and opinions.
Panda xxx
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PS GypsyRoseLee - please let me know how you get on with the Femoston 2/10. Good luck :D :D :D
Panda xx
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Oh hang on GyspsyRoseLee, I made a mistake, you ve stopped the Femoston and sticking with the patches til you see Annie Evans - sorry it s my brain fog :-X! Please let me know how you get on.
Panda xx
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Yes! Yes! You describe it perfectly. It's extreme anxiety, mixed with overwhelming dread and despair. When it strikes there is 'nothing' I can do to stop it. And, just like you say the cruellest thing is that it convinces you that you will NEVER feel normal again. So you feel even more despairing because your skewed mind insists you will feel like this forever. Then you panic, because that thought is just unbearable.
When I had PND I was convinced my baby would never get older, or more independent and I was going to be trapped caring for a newborn for the rest of my life. Totally irrational, but the anxiety tricked me completely.
Have you looked at Prof Studd's website? You will.immediately recognise yourself in his case studies on hormonal depression and anxiety. I know I did! If you have always suffered with PMS etc, then you're very likely to experience an increase in severity going into peri menopause, which happened to me, and obviously to you.
I'm glad you didn't even try the grey tabs. I did, and it was nasty. Another two weeks of my life I will never get back. And I tried them.again, the next month. Even more nasty. 6 days of my life I will never get back and a surprise weekend away totally ruined.
I will be very interested to see how you get on with Utro and gel as this is the regime I expect Annie Evans will give me. Please keep us posted and I promise to let you know how I get on with Annie Evans.
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I can t believe I have found someone who understands so perfectly what it feels like ;D. It s the utter and total inability to believe that you will ever come out of the deep dark hole and ever feel happy again. I am always 100% convinced that I will definitely be stuck in that place for ever. I have even tried writing down messages to myself to read when I m in the depths saying that I ve felt like this before and will come through it but I still can t believe when I read them that I ever felt well and I certainly can t believe I will ever feel well again. My sister gets so frustrated with me and can t understand why I can t keep it in perspective! She just doesn t understand that I am completely helpless whilst in the grip of "the monster".
I will let you know how I am getting on and look forward to hearing the out-come of your appointment. In the mean-time we ll keep our (probably soon to be hairy) chins up (got to laugh at ourselves on the days we re able to)!!!!!!!!
xxxxx
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Dr Annie is lovely really kind.
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Yep, it feels like you're falling down an endless black hole and you will never climb back out again. And when you're in 'the hole' then nothing helps. My lovely DH has bought me flowers or whisked me away for a romantic weekend. But nothing works or helps. We could win the Lottery, and it genuinely wouldn't cheer me up.
I am just a totally different person when in 'the hole'. I am very withdrawn. Can't smile. Barely speak. Totally indecisive. Even putting together a simple meal overwhelms me.
But when not in 'the hole' I am bubbly, self confident and very organised.
It's this total Jekyll and Hyde transformation which has led to so many women being misdiagnosed with bi polar. Prof Studd's talks about this on his website and it is a recognised indicator of hormonal depression/anxiety.
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Hi Ladies
Just to let you know I ve had a great 3 weeks on the Estrogel and tonight is my first Utrogestan pill - keep everything crossed for me that I don't disappear down the deep dark progesterone hole!! I ll keep you posted on how I get on.
Panda ;)
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panda123 - don't expect the worst - you may be surprised and feel fine. I do think it is unrealistic to expect not to get some PMT around the withdrawal bleed - try to relax and know that any negative side effects you may experience will pass. DG x
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Panda,
I'm so pleased to hear you are feeling so positive..... That's me been on it a week.... Just a wee question, do u put it on ur thighs or arms?
Love m x
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I know I m sounding very pessimistic DG and I must try to change that! I ve been ground down over the years but that's no excuse and I need to appreciate the fact that I now have more control over the situation. And as you say, it may not be as bad as I expect so I mustn't t panic before it's absolutely necessary ;D
Thanks Mandz, life has improved so much for me so far and I m sure it will for you too. I put it on my thighs as I ve got bad frozen shoulder so it's hard for me to reach my shoulders!! The joys of getting older 😩
Xx
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Hi panda
I too have been putting it on my thighs, I started off first couple of nights a pump of it on each thigh, but felt woozy n queasy in mornings....then I read somewhere just one pump on the thigh, so feeling much better
The anxiety you described is totally how I was couple of weeks ago, I've been dogged with it for years, but I've never experienced it as bad as this time
How are you getting on?. Xxx
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Hi Mandz
I put a pump on each thigh every morning and don't have any side effects at that dosage.
Taken 2 Utrogestan so far and still feeling fine so fingers crossed it continues to go well.
I m so glad to hear you sounding so much more positive - this forum is a God send and is full of such wonderful women with a deep understanding of hormone related misery and all so happy to help with their knowledge and understanding.
Panda xxx
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Just to update on how the Utrogestan went for me - it has been a nightmare of anxiety and depression since my bleed. Not sure what to do now, don't feel I can go through this for much longer as it makes my life unbearable.
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Hi panda123 - no advice but sending you a :bighug: as it sounds like you need it.
Taz x
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:bighug:
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Awwww panda I'm so sorry to hear you're struggling
Think hurdity is very knowledgeable on this ......hopefully someone will be along soon to help you, meanwhile I'm sending you much hugs and I can really empathise with you the feelings of despair
Keep posting panda ......it does help xxx
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Hello panda123
Hope you feel better soon. I used the Gel and utrogestan after seeing Prof Studd, I saw him a couple of years ago. I was so hopeful this regime would work for me. I was so disappointed when I had really bad side effects similar to you, with the utrogestan. I just couldn't tolerate it. I left it a few months and stopped the HRT. I take a different type of HRT now and I'm fine with that.
Best wishes
Vickypk
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I've just taken my first lot of utrogestan and I was ok on it except for the intensity of tiredness in the day and boating and headaches which I'm still having since finishing. No low mood which was good and was feeling s lot calmer. However since stopping I haven't bled properly thought I was starting twice but nothing much came of it. And now feel like I've gone back again as not sleeping. Also while taking it had no VA whatsoever? I had notice this happen before when trying to take othe progesterones. That's now coming back. For me a smaller amount daily as in natural cycle seems more realistic?
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Kate50 - it is early days and one cycle isn't enough to really let this HRT regime to settle. I'd give it at least 3 months before changing anything or you will never know what works. Chopping and changing seems to cause too many problems. Dg x
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Thanks for all your lovely support everyone. I will persevere with this regime as I know one month is not enough to see true results. Was just feeling so good before I started the Utrogestan that I guess I was hoping for a miracle cure. Hopefully the anxiety and deep sadness will start to lift soon and I can get a few good days before the next round of Utrogestan.
Hugs to you all
Panda xxxxx
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I take a different type of HRT now and I'm fine with that.
Hi Vickypk
Out of interest what hrt works for you. I am on 2nd week of the utrogeston and estrogel and going to give it the full 3 mth trial. Meno nurse said if it doesnt work only other option is merena coil. Feeling low, headachey and tired so far but early days. One thing imiss from previous hrt tablets is the euphoric episodes which at least gave temporary relief from the anxiety!!
Glad to hear you have got it right though, positive stiries really help x
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Hi Ruthae
Good you are on the estrogel and utrogestan regime, hope you will be okay with that. I just felt so bad using that regime, thought it was the best HRT, but it didn't agree with me for some reason. I'm using Evorel conti and have been fine with that.
Good luck
Vickypkx
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Ah ok, well glad you found something that works. Am keeping everything crossed! :D
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Hello ladies I was wondering how you are all getting on. I'm only a week in to Dr Studd regime so know I'm a way off feeling any benefits yet. I feel awful at the mo can't really leave house and crying etc so am trying to relax. One question I have to take the testim and oestrogel for two months and then the progesterone tablets for 7 days on the 1st July to have a withdrawal bleed. Will I not bleed till then ????? Sorry for thickness 🙈😂
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If you still have regular periods then you may well get one at the usual time ie when it's due. If you are peri-menopausal then you won't know what your cycle is doing so you may or may not. You should still take the progesterone as directed though - whether or not you bleed before then.
Hurdity x
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Thank you. Yes I still have periods every 17-21 days so that's good to know thank you
Cx