Menopause Matters Forum
General Discussion => This 'n' That => Topic started by: CLKD on April 10, 2020, 05:50:09 PM
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Does any1 else feel that all this outdoor reporting: from beaches, outside Hospitals, showing how Cities are empty : is a non-essential journey :-\ ? I'm sick of seeing journalists and police walking along beaches which are supposedly empty, showing us how it 'should' be at the same time telling us that we are allowed to exercise. Well no, journalists and associated camera crews should not be standing outside Hospitals ......... if they want 2 issue an update on Boris it can be sent to Matt Hancock for release at 5.00 p.m.!
Also, that MP who travelled from London to see his parents in Shropshire as they needed food and medicines then went to Herefordshire to join his family ....... again, 1 rule for them and we are being told otherwise . A 40 mile journey is not essential, when the public are being told not to travel more than 5 miles from home?
:bang: :bang: :bang:
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that was stated early on a news report regarding the mass grave ......... not the best place to end up though, looks like an old industrial site :-\
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I don't listen to the news anymore,they LOVE this sort of thing,endless reports of all the deaths from apparent covid,yet how do the media know that?All they are reporting are the usual daily deaths,are they going to keep reporting that?Because if so,there are going to be thousands suffering with their mental health,constant doom and gloom.It was good to see the 99 year old man leaving hospital after beating the virus,brought a lump to my throat :)
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From the US we were shown pictures of a mass grave where New Yorkers are being buried. In response someone from the area has tweeted "unclaimed bodies have been buried in mass graves on Hart Island for over 150 years. NY didn't start doing this for coronavirus".
I heard the guy in charge of these burials being interviewed on Radio 4. He said that each Covid-19 victim who is buried on Heart Island is given a number which is passed on to the family and once the crisis is over the body can then be exhumed and 'repatriated' to wherever the family wishes.
Taz x
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That'll be a job - they are being buried in white boxes with no numbers visible in tiers - then being covered over by earth. I think it would be better to offer any relatives a service to honour all that are laid there. In many UK Church Yards are corners outside the walls where unclaimed are buried, some have an area in one corner inside the wall for paupers.
I saw a Funeral Director saying that his trade has diminished as people haven't made provision so can't afford a funeral - well there's a message there somewhere?
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This report of mass graves was awful, I had no idea that New York had a place where they buried unknown or unclaimed, bodies :'( apparently it's been in use before the virus. What happens to these poor people in the USA or UK it's not something I've ever thought about or wanted to if I'm honest :-\
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It's part of our history. Many people on the outskirts of society would not have a) family nor b) funds 4 a funeral so the Church would take on the service. However, one had to be Confirmed in order to be buried in consecrated ground so anyone unknown to the Church would be given a pauper burial.
Church Yards hold our history and can give a huge amount of information. Quiet places 4 research too ;)
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It's something from history, mass graves, not 2020. I think that image of the graves will be forever linked to this year :'(
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I'm avoiding the media as much as possible - just check in on the headlines twice a day and that's pretty much it. Because I'm getting SO fed up with endless repetition. We all KNOW the rules - and those who are ignoring them are ignoring them by choice, not because they 'haven't heard' about them. Also, we do not need graphic details of how someone dies or how upset their family is. It's not going to make the selfish few change their behaviour, and it increases fear and distress in everyone else (and fear hits your immune system big time, so will actually make you more prone to being poorly).
I'm also fed up with the number of 'do as I say not as I do' stories which abound on both the news channels AND social media.
Two from this morning, the first from a paper and the second from Facebook:
"I was taking my daily cycle ride along the coastal path this morning, and I was disgusted to see so many people out for a walk. Selfish idiots - do they think the rules don't apply to them?"
And
"I've just popped down to Tesco for some milk and I was horrified to see how many people were shopping. STAY HOME. You're killing people by making unnecessary journeys."
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I don't know stellajane? One for future research .........
The point about exercise is to avoid others but remain healthy.
I can't be bothered, on E Sat., to watch the update ::)
It might be 2020 but I suspect in parts of the World where the media fear to tread, this may happen ......... It is what it is. The World is running out of burial space as well as land fill. Some cultures of course celebrate their ancestors once a year by dancing and singing ::)
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Well said Dorothy,the news is practically on a loop these days,I'm with you,we DO NOT NEED to see people in wards coughing and in distress,WE GET IT!! They don't show you in normal times,people dying from cancer and heart disease so why this?
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I think more and more people will switch off? I think it's an invasion of privacy as most won't be able to say yah or nah! and surely a camera crew isn't appropriate with the shortage of space in ICU?
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It's done to keep us scared. Scared people do as they are told. :(
I watch minimal media coverage. It's saturation and I'm sick of it.
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;D. will you share so that we can practice ;D
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Does any1 else feel that all this outdoor reporting: from beaches, outside Hospitals, showing how Cities are empty : is a non-essential journey :-\ ? I'm sick of seeing journalists and police walking along beaches which are supposedly empty, showing us how it 'should' be at the same time telling us that we are allowed to exercise. Well no, journalists and associated camera crews should not be standing outside Hospitals ......... if they want 2 issue an update on Boris it can be sent to Matt Hancock for release at 5.00 p.m.!
Also, that MP who travelled from London to see his parents in Shropshire as they needed food and medicines then went to Herefordshire to join his family ....... again, 1 rule for them and we are being told otherwise . A 40 mile journey is not essential, when the public are being told not to travel more than 5 miles from home?
:bang: :bang: :bang:
I think it was/is important to show the empty places in case people had the idea they would sneak off and surely there must be other people doing it. Well actually no, and the imnages prove it ( although could have been taken at dawn!).
Noone has said we are only to travel 5 miles from home? Where did you get that idea? There has been no limit put on where you should drive either for your shopping or to park for your exercise. For the latter the Goivt has said close to home but steered clear of any definition. As for distance for visiting elderly relative who also lives in village without shops, eg shopping as I do, well that's about 15 miles and no-one would tell someone not to do that. Also we live further than 5 miles from a shop so it is patently absurd to put any form of distance restriction, which is why they haven't. 40 miles is pushing it but if the elderly parents had no other way of getting their food and medicines fair enough, although most people can call on help relatively locally.
It's done to keep us scared. Scared people do as they are told. :(
I watch minimal media coverage. It's saturation and I'm sick of it.
We have reason to be scared with the frightening amount of deaths happening daily and no clear end to this crisis. Of course we should do what we're told otherwise this thing will claim more of us before our time.
Well said Dorothy,the news is practically on a loop these days,I'm with you,we DO NOT NEED to see people in wards coughing and in distress,WE GET IT!! They don't show you in normal times,people dying from cancer and heart disease so why this?
No many people don't seem to get it (jaypo excluding you and all of us here on the forum ie you and we do get it!!). Every single death before thier time is harrowing and a tragedy for someone somewhere. Although it is distressing it is not possible to imagine how ill people can get from this virus without the reminders and CLKD, people will have given their consent to be shown on TV if they are identifiable, in fact people have asked to share their stories.
I think we should be shown more. I mean in italy we were shown the lorry convoys of trucks with bodies and temporary mortuaries being set up etc. I know that sounds morbid but it brings it home to people, and practically, what is being done in UK about this? It is really quite scary. Then we hear some politicians talking about easing the lockdown because of the economic impact of continuing for weeks and in some form for months. NO WAY!
I must say I've been watching the daily briefings although I get bored by the questions, and keep up with all the stats on twitter as well as trying to read the latest science (digestible version!).
The deaths from apparent covid will be from the death certs from doctors if it is suspected, which is quite reasonable at the moment. There will have to be grounds for suspecting that. These are reflected in the weekly stats from ONS. I linked to that on another thread but don't ask me which one ::) there are so many!
The thing to do is to avoid all the poor quality tabloids like Mail Sun Express etc and other disreputable rags that love sensational headlines. The BBC is fairly straightforward as is the Guardian, but you can also sign up to Dept of Health and Social Care, Public Health etc, and some of the science sites (I've put links to some of these) for some of the actual data.
Hurdity x
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Again this evening ICU was being shown on TV >:( and if people are at death's door :
people will have given their consent to be shown on TV if they are identifiable, in fact people have asked to share their stories.
unlikely. It's an invasion of privacy to film anyone unable to give consent. Even if they aren't named. Why would any ICU have room for a camera anyway :-\
It was said 2 weeks ago that 5 miles away from home was far enough. In fact some Police have been telling people that they can't play in their gardens >:(
My point is: if we are all being told to stay at home and in some statements 'stay indoors' >:( what right do journalists have to travel, stand on a Prom., beach etc. simply to tell us not to do so !?! - again don't do as I do :-\. Any update from Hospitals can be given by video link internally to Matt whatever his name might be, rather than a Journalist with crew standing outside!!
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I have to respectfully disagree hurdity (well slightly) seeing people dying and horrifically ill is not good for us,mentally,these are bleak times and this brings me down to such a low,yes,here on the forum,we are obeying the rules,unfortunately those selfish morons WHO ARE NOT >:( will never change their attitudes,you can show them as many dying people as you like,it will not affect them,they will carry on doing whatever they please,as usual the minority spoil it for the majority.
As I've said before,over half a million people die in England and Wales every year and after this is all over,the numbers won't have changed much by the end of the year,it's the fact that these unfortunate people are all dying at one time instead of it spreading out throughout the year.
The constant doom and gloom won't change these selfish idiots unless of course the images on tv are one of their granny's
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Morning jaypo :foryou:
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seeing people dying and horrifically ill is not good for us,mentally,these are bleak times and this brings me down to such a low,yes,here on the forum,we are obeying the rules,unfortunately those selfish morons WHO ARE NOT >:( will never change their attitudes,you can show them as many dying people as you like,it will not affect them,they will carry on doing whatever they please,as usual the minority spoil it for the majority.
I agree - for those of us who are keeping the rules, showing graphic pictures or harrowing interviews won't have any benefit - and since stress and anxiety is known to have a damaging impact on the immune system, these 'news' items can actually cause harm by making us more physically vulnerable. As for those who aren't keeping the rules - no amount of traumatic viewing will change their minds - until they or someone they love is affected, they just won't listen, because they are totally self centred.
I know I am risking getting the virus every time I walk into a supermarket - I really don't need people constantly telling me that, or asking if I know how horrible it is to die from Covid-19!
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Morning clkd :) hope you?re feeling a bit better?
Yes,Dorothy,it's true, I think levels of depression are going to sky rocket,there will be suicides,no doubt but these idiots (I'd like to call them something else) won't change their habits.A lady yesterday was out walking her dog but being responsible,she took a photo of 7 men all with bikes,sitting on a park bench and chatting with each other,they just don't think the rules apply to them and no matter how many dying people you show them will change their attitude :'(
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Still hung over :-\ lack of exercise probably ;)
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Is it true Chris Tarrant has decided to go to his holiday home?
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Oh - >runs off to look<
>runs back: puffing < However, viewers were more interested in Chris' own drama as he revealed he left his home in the capital four weeks ago to move into his country house.
He told Piers Morgan and Susanna Reid: "We came away from London about four weeks ago and have been locked away in deepest Berkshire for the last mont
B4 lockdown was even considered ;-)
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;D Don't exhaust yourself clkd ;D
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:lol: :whist:
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BBC news are now quoting weekly figures, daily deaths are not going up as much as they were so they've found a new statistic to keep up the bad news >:(
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They haven't mentioned care home deaths either ....... so the whole reports are skewed!
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How right you are TH,the media should be hung drawn and quartered in my opinion
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What annoys me is that even programmes that are not news related, go on and on about. >:( ::)
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....... and now the Government has realised that there are Care Homes involved in these deaths too.
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Care homes are not included in most other countries statistics I read, only hospital rates, that's why they are not included.
It's not a nice thing to admit but if you are in a care home you are likely to be elderly and probably have medical conditions, any widespread flu like virus would have the same result if it's contracted there :'( care home staff need to be recognised for the efforts they are making at the moment, poorly paid and vastly under valued workers.
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BBC news are now quoting weekly figures, daily deaths are not going up as much as they were so they've found a new statistic to keep up the bad news >:(
They are still quoting the daily figures but the ONS data are released weekly on Tuesdays and are very important because they do include all the other deaths and look at total xcess deaths compared to the 5 yr average, and yes the care home deaths are included. Quite rightly there has been A LOT of publicity about the care home figures and the forgotten side of this dreadful pandemic. Did I hear that 2000 care homes had had infections of the virus in England alone. I haven't looked at the simulation and exercise re a potential pandemic and the (ignored) recommendations but I wonder if the impact on these settings was given special recognition and the need for measures to be put in place in the same way as in hopsitals re protective equipment, testing and isolation?
As an aside (well quite major!)I am also wondering how this pandemic would have panned out in UK if we had had a female prime minister like Germany and new Zealand who took decisive measures earlier on in the pandemic stage than we did. (Not Maggie though!!! )?
Hurdity x
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WRONG! care home deaths have not been included, the government became aware of the death rate today and how numbers have not been included. Also, neither staff nor residents are being tested so the problem is going to be, that when staff go sick, what then? They haven't been contacted by any one from Government with advice or to enquire what they might require. The Care Sector has been totally forgotten - my sister works in care and our Mum is also in care and does not have any underlying conditions. She takes NO medication and is fit. 93 and thriving. So why should she be put at risk?
The Home went into Lockdown long B4 the government suggested it.
It wouldn't have made any difference male/female because the government decided not to prepare for C-19 after the meeting in 2014. My sister has been begging the NHS for PPE for 15 years and has had nothing - she manages a secure care unit.
Pity that the UK keeps comparing what happens here with the rest of Europe. >:(
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Confirmed on the BBC News at 10.00 - deaths from care homes or in the community have never been included in the over all rates..
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My family in New Zealand say they don't get nearly as many visitors as the UK and that's how they've had a lower number of cases. They started the lockdown a week after us in New Zealand but they were told it was going to be four weeks minimum from the start.
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Those countries now lifting restrictions have had a resurge, due to incomers :-\ :'(
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WRONG! care home deaths have not been included, the government became aware of the death rate today and how numbers have not been included.
CLKD it's not really necessary to be so extremely rude when you disagree with someone, to shout and exclaim in capitals so triumphantly. How about "I don't agree" or "I think you might be mistaken" which would be more polite? It would be bad enough if you were correct in your statement (that I was wrong) but even worse that actually I was not. Nothing in my statement about the weekly ONS deaths is wrong as far as I can see.
The thing is, as is the case with anything to do with science and statistics, detail is everything so your statement "care home deaths have not been included, the government became aware of the death rate today and how numbers have not been included." is not precise enough when we are talking about several sets of figures.
Confirmed on the BBC News at 10.00 - deaths from care homes or in the community have never been included in the over all rates..
And no, this was not confirmed on the news at 10 pm. You are referring to the daily deaths and I was specifically taking up Two Hoots' point about the stats released yesterday. These are different.
To repeat, the weekly ONS data released yesterday (for the week up to 3rd April) includes deaths from care homes, and elsewhere but the data lag behind the daily NHS hospital deaths, so is not up to date but is nevertheless illuminating. If you want to look in more detail and for a more precsie explanation, a readable summary and a few graphs I suggest you go to this link which explains better than I can.
https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths/bulletins/deathsregisteredweeklyinenglandandwalesprovisional/weekending3april2020
What was more worrying was the large number of excess deaths (compared with the 5 year average I think) that were NOT attributed to Covid-19 indicating that even more people may be dying in the community (inlcuding care homes) from this terrible disease and it not being recorded. Another possibility was also put forward, that there could be more deaths from other causes if people were not calling the doctor for emergencies due to Covid-19 and therefore dying as a result. For that particular week I think the discussion tended towards fewer deaths being recorded as due to CV-19 than should have been. Since then guidance on death certification I think has been updated. I did look it up a while back....it is also possilbe to put more than one cuase of death eg covid-19 and pneumonia. This is explained in the ONS data.
I thought I should clarify in case anyone else was confused about the data.
Hurdity x
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For 15+ years my sister asked the NHS for more PPE equipment. This isn't a statistic, this is working practice. It was never considered essential from higher up, even when pressed by the various Unions. They won't spend the money in order to protect both staff and patients. They insist on un-attainable 'targets' set by people who have never wiped a bottom ...... nor sat by patients to give comfort or pain relief. Bean counters rule.
Having been in contact with several care workers including my sister who is a Nurse at a care home in recent weeks, this area of health care has been forgotten. No PPE or advice offered. No replies to questions sent to government. Also Matt Hancock as good as admitted yesterday that the care industry and care homes in particular, had been over looked. From the horse's mouth .........
I watched the reports every day initially. None included deaths in care homes until it was pointed out by the Community Care groups in the last few days.
Deaths in care homes were not taken into account: which are far higher than is usual 4 this time of year. 9+ in one home, don't tell me that is expected, even taking Novo-virus or seasonal 'flu into account. I don't need to read links but tend to believe those who work in care and are at last, being interviewed to give their stories.
Mum's Care Home has a weekly GP clinic which continues. District Nurses do 'end of life' care. They are in lockdown. Hopefully it will be enough to keep residents safe from infection.
14th April Confirmed on the BBC News at 10.00 - deaths from care homes or in the community have never been included in the over all rates..
. That's enough information for me.
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The media would have us believe that our hospitals are out the door with covid patients,now don't get me wrong, I admire ALL the staff who work in the nhs,every single one of them but you can now look at all hospitals in England and Wales (every single one) who have had patients die from covid and each hospital has had one or two,bigger places i.e London Birmingham etc,then the figures rise to 25 or so but in our heads we have visions of bodies piling up,it's just not true,Say 700 people die overnight then divide it by all the hospitals,the figures are tiny,hospitals across the U.K. are used to these numbers dying daily
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Also after all that rush to build 'nightingale' hospitals, it has been stated in the media that they won't be required :-\ so what happens to all that equipment ? landfill ? Where will the Staff be fetched from, other hospitals?
Why aren't patients taken straight there leaving hospitals for those that need other treatments?
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Exactly,yet another knee jerk reaction,certainly put people suffering with covid to that hospital and I appreciate there are a fair few but pleeeeease let's quit with the daily updates of death, I know it's sad but death is a fact of life. I am so so sorry for the elderly though,it must be so scary for them in those care homes :'(
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A good report about C-19 D. Certs. etc this morning ;-). DH has enlightened me.
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This is better ?
More than nine in 10 people dying with coronavirus have an underlying health condition, figures from the Office for National Statistics show.
The ONS looked at nearly 4,000 deaths during March in England and Wales where coronavirus was mentioned on the death certificate.
In 91% of cases the individuals had other health problems.
The most common was heart disease, followed by dementia and respiratory illness.
On average, people dying also had roughly three other health conditions.
16.April 2020
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This was taken from a medical paper Covid-19 was the underlying cause of death in 3,372 deaths in March, which is the equivalent of 69 per 100,000 people.
It accounted for 7% of all deaths in England and Wales that month ? 9% of all deaths for males and 6% for females.
The mortality rate for men who died due to coronavirus was 97.5 deaths per 100,000 population, while for women it was 46.6 deaths per 100,000, the ONS said.
Including cases where Covid-19 was mentioned anywhere on the death certificate, the death rate for men was 113.1 per 100,000 for men and 54.1 per 100,000 for women.
Puts it in perspective a bit
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:thankyou: technical ::)