Menopause Matters Forum
Menopause Discussion => Other Health Discussion => Topic started by: KaraShannon on April 04, 2024, 12:08:23 AM
-
Hi all
I'll be back to answer my threads asap this week, just been overwhelmed with work. Correction, menopause ;D Correction, menopause in the modern world that doesn't allow me to sit quietly in a field or forest and meditate all day.
Anyway, getting to the point, has anyone used a facial cream that contains oestrogen (and is considered safe)?
Curious :)
-
Why would any1 need to use a face cream with hormones in?
-
It has crossed my mind too, if it does what it does down there, what would it do for an aging face. Does it even exist?? :)
-
I have ordered and still waiting to be delivered from USA. Estriol + progesterone. I want to try too. :)
-
Why would any1 need to use a face cream with hormones in?
OK, I believe different people have different reasons for that.
As for me I was struggling with NHS HRT for long time, with estrogen part of it, I used to be estrogen dominant in peri, but now 5 years later all my hormones dropped down excluding testosterone. I know I am very sensitive to sex hormones and they can easily get me from any parts of my body. NHS used to treat meno symptoms with estradiol, but my post meno body just hates it, Gina from vagina nearly killed me and estradiol gel poisoned me. I asked GP to prescribe me something very weak for my VA and I got Blissel gel, which is very weak form of estrogen - estriol. After first day of using it (half of recommended dose) something magical happened to my body. My whole body started recovering, not just vagina. Since that time I use Blissel instead of estrogen (estradiol) gel.
So because face creams contain estriol I want to try to use it like a source of estriol for my body to make me feel good. :)
-
Hi all
I'll be back to answer my threads asap this week, just been overwhelmed with work. Correction, menopause ;D Correction, menopause in the modern world that doesn't allow me to sit quietly in a field or forest and meditate all day.
Anyway, getting to the point, has anyone used a facial cream that contains oestrogen (and is considered safe)?
Curious :)
Eeek! I wouldn't use any cream on the face that wasn't designed to be used there. I've noticed through googling there are some on the market that contain phytooestrogens but I mmgaine these are harmless...
Hurdity x
-
I have ordered and still waiting to be delivered from USA. Estriol + progesterone. I want to try too. :)
Is this a face cream or one of these wellsprings type creams that say they are effective for menopause? Really as my previous post I wouldn't risk using anything on the face that isn't designed for being used there. Maybe it's a specialised face cream? But, if it comes from USA I would be dubious because they have a different healthcare system there and not subject to the same rigorous testing and controls we have here in UK - if it hasn't been tested on the face then I wouldn't risk using it on there - but possibly will depend on the concentration of estriol.
If you like estriol then you can eg also get Ovestin or generic estriol cream though again I wouldn't risk overdosing on them beyond the dosage recommended for VA? I'm not sure there has been sufficient research into the effect of larger doses than required for VA - though I'm there should be if it could be an alternative oestrogen for menopausal symptoms....(I haven't looked extensively - just had a quick look).
Glad you're feeling better generally....
Hurdity x
-
Thanks for all the replies
Yes, I noticed them online when I was looking to purchase ovestin. I wondered if they were medically safe and recognised as such or not. Was just getting initial viewpoints but I will check at the Newson Clinic about it when I make my appointment.
Reason I was curious is because of dark circles under the eyes lately, they come and go and seem more so on the combined patch than on the estradiol patch, but I will mention all at the Newson Clinic.
Agree that these things shouldn't be taken lightly, I just wanted to know if anyone knew if it was a thing that was (correctly) used under medical supervision.
-
Is this a face cream or one of these wellsprings type creams that say they are effective for menopause?
If you like estriol then you can eg also get Ovestin
Hurdity x
Yes, it’s wellspring’s face serum and it is intended to be applied to the face. It contains 0,5% progesterone and 0.11% estriol.
I do prefer Blissel, Ovestin is much stronger in compare with Blissel, 1 dose of Ovestin cream contains 500 micrograms estriol, Blissel gel contains 50 micrograms estriol. I use half of that dose, so it comes to 25 micrograms. I need very small dose and Blissel just perfect for me at least at the moment. You really can’t overdose if using estriol in such small doses.
NHS use estriol for VA treatment only, because there’s no evidence and not enough researches been done about its effectiveness for meno symptoms treatment.
Well, hormonal sensitivity is not studied too, so there is no any other option left what NHS can offer me.
-
But, if it comes from USA I would be dubious because they have a different healthcare system there and not subject to the same rigorous testing and controls we have here in UK -
Hurdity x
Every country has its own healthcare system, different law and regulations, but it doesn’t really mean that there’s something wrong with them.
-
However: US food Agency Standards are not as rigorous as those in the UK! This applies to their medical research too.
I cannot understand any1 wanting to use a product somewhere 'else' - would 1 use 'anusol' on the lips for example where there are good vaseline products. :-\
Any treatment applied locally to the vagina is very unlikely to improve the rest of our bodies. Unless there is Peer Reviewed Research ........
I would also warn against buying products that are not covered by NICE because fillers/packaging from other countries may affect the very tender facial skin.
-
Aren't hormones systemic? I thought we had receptors throughout the body? Else why would we use HRT for bones?
-
Good point. However, which types of replacement are used? Confused.com ;D
-
I agree, US standards are often less stringent than UK ones and personally I don't trust them much. I can see why you might want to put oestrogen on your face but why would anyone want to use progesterone? Is there a reason you m8ght want to?
-
I would also warn against buying products that are not covered by NICE because fillers/packaging from other countries may affect the very tender facial skin.
It’s logical thinking, I agree. I am sure in USA ladies are advised not to buy British products because it is not covered by USA regulations and so may be not safe for American ladies.
I don’t know if you remember about 10 years ago or so Americans fined Germany company Volkswagen, they sold to them cars, but something was not adjusted to American standards and had EU standards instead, so Americans fined the company for not following American standards when selling cars to Americans. But doesn’t it mean Volkswagen is a bad car if it has EU standards instead of American?
-
Someone mentioned before that Utrogestan contains an ingredient which is prohibited for using in EU in food production, but EU still using it in medication.
-
How sure R U AngelaH 'about USA ladies being advised ...... '. :-\.
As an aside: reading Chris Van Tullerkan's book has opened our eyes to how the food industry manipulates buyers both in the UK and State side. It is probably similar in the medicines industries.
Let us know how you get on, R U expecting any untoward side effects by using on the face?
-
That ingredient would be which exactly AngelaH? Because food and medicines are used differently for different reasons ........
-
How sure R U AngelaH 'about USA ladies being advised ...... '. :-\.
This is my life experience. :)
I wasn’t born in Britain. ::)
-
That ingredient would be which exactly AngelaH? Because food and medicines are used differently for different reasons ........
Someone mentioned on here, I don’t really remember.
-
MayB do a search to clarify .......... :-\.
-
Let us know how you get on, R U expecting any untoward side effects by using on the face?
I will, it should be applied to the face, not any others part of the body.
-
MayB do a search to clarify .......... :-\.
I wish I have a lot of time and not to be so busy with work and other staff to do. But I will try to go through Utrogestan ingredients.
-
That ingredient would be which exactly AngelaH? Because food and medicines are used differently for different reasons ........
I think that lady was taking about titanium dioxide
Armed with a dossier of research which suggested titanium dioxide caused cancer, EU health officials last year decided they had no choice but to ban the common food additive.12 Oct 2023
The food additive BANNED in the EU (and Northern Ireland) but still lurking in chewing gum, white chocolate and sauces sold in Britain
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-12619767/Food-additive-titanium-dioxide-BANNED-EU-UK-US.html#:~:text=Armed%20with%20a%20dossier%20of,ban%20the%20common%20food%20additive.
Does it mean for people from EU better not to buy white chocolate in Britain? Well, this is very personal choice I believe.
-
I cannot understand any1 wanting to use a product somewhere 'else' - would 1 use 'anusol' on the lips for example where there are good vaseline products. :-\
Actually, and don't laugh, but if you get bags under your eyes, anusol cream applied there Actually tightens the skin and gets rid of the bags!! 😆😆
-
Progesterone cream is fine to use on the face but you have to be more careful with oestrogen, it usually states not to use above the breasts in case it migrates down onto the breast tissue.
-
I think the best way to do is reading instruction on the product, if it says that cream should be use on the face then I would be better not to apply it somewhere below the breasts. :)
-
Is this a face cream or one of these wellsprings type creams that say they are effective for menopause?
If you like estriol then you can eg also get Ovestin
Hurdity x
Yes, it’s wellspring’s face serum and it is intended to be applied to the face. It contains 0,5% progesterone and 0.11% estriol.
I do prefer Blissel, Ovestin is much stronger in compare with Blissel, 1 dose of Ovestin cream contains 500 micrograms estriol, Blissel gel contains 50 micrograms estriol. I use half of that dose, so it comes to 25 micrograms. I need very small dose and Blissel just perfect for me at least at the moment. You really can’t overdose if using estriol in such small doses.
NHS use estriol for VA treatment only, because there’s no evidence and not enough researches been done about its effectiveness for meno symptoms treatment.
Well, hormonal sensitivity is not studied too, so there is no any other option left what NHS can offer me.
You're saying that the cream that you are buying from US for the face consists of 0.11 % estriol?? :o
Well that is slightly more than the concentration of estriol in Ovestin which ia TEN TIMES STRONGER than the other generic estriol cream at 0.01% !!! Ovestin is delivered in tiny amounts to the vagina so I am amazed that a face cream is sold at this same concentration but which is likely used more liberally.
I would be very cautious about considering usage of this - as there simply isn't enough reserach, as far as I know ( and please put me right if you have up to date info) to show that it is safe both systemically and on the face though I assume there must have been some sort of long-term trials?
Hurdity x
-
Good question Hurdity. :)
According to Americans, who produce estriol creams, typical estriol skin absorption is only 3%.
Any way I have got it yesterday and applied to my face before I went to bed. It is cosmetic product designed to improve face skin and it does its job, but at the moment I cannot say how it affects my whole body, because have not noticed any changes from the first use of it.
How safe is bioidentical products? They are on the market for nearly 30 years, the only concern for UK health system is that production is not regulated by UK authorities.
I tried to find any information about using estriol instead of esrtadiol, not many researches have been done, Japanese researches have positive and promising results, but European are not. So the two researches came to contradictory conclusions.
-
Great to see the discussion, I will come back and read properly once I know how my work week is organising itself.
Meanwhile just to add that 'somehow' ::) I actually ordered iHerb estrogen cream (I can't remember doing it which is scary, lol, but it's just red clover and phytoestrogens from first glance). Because I have to be really sure about applying to the face and have to read up a lot more, I just tried a little externally down below, not anywhere internally, well onto external skin only and very tiny amount. After only one night I did notice pelvic floor felt stronger (but it starts to feel that way after switching back to estradiol from combined anyway so that might compound what I'm saying) and there was a lift in my mood (though my mood hadn't been bad before I did feel 'bright.'). I also had vivid dreams. All in all remember waking feeling restored ;D that was a test and I'm not going to use it regularly until I've got proper advice, but interested what people here think. I would have thought it would be less strong than something like ovestin, but I don't know and we all must stay safe with these things. What do other's think?
edited to add might have been a placebo effect, but we know when we feel better don't we, it was subtle but I did feel better.
-
Why would any1 need to use a face cream with hormones in?
OK, I believe different people have different reasons for that.
As for me I was struggling with NHS HRT for long time, with estrogen part of it, I used to be estrogen dominant in peri, but now 5 years later all my hormones dropped down excluding testosterone. I know I am very sensitive to sex hormones and they can easily get me from any parts of my body. NHS used to treat meno symptoms with estradiol, but my post meno body just hates it, Gina from vagina nearly killed me and estradiol gel poisoned me. I asked GP to prescribe me something very weak for my VA and I got Blissel gel, which is very weak form of estrogen - estriol. After first day of using it (half of recommended dose) something magical happened to my body. My whole body started recovering, not just vagina. Since that time I use Blissel instead of estrogen (estradiol) gel.
So because face creams contain estriol I want to try to use it like a source of estriol for my body to make me feel good. :)
Interesting Angela, I can see your reasoning.
I've always struggled with vaginal oestrogen, so curious what problems you had, they sound like they were serious. I hope you don't mind me asking but I'm wondering if I have similar problems. I'm fine with patches for estradiol but my body reacts badly to vaginal oestrogen and I get a horrible dizzy head and sensitivity to sound and even postural hypotension.
I'm going to ask my doctor about Blissel gel, I'd never heard of that :)
-
I cannot understand any1 wanting to use a product somewhere 'else' - would 1 use 'anusol' on the lips for example where there are good vaseline products. :-\
Actually, and don't laugh, but if you get bags under your eyes, anusol cream applied there Actually tightens the skin and gets rid of the bags!! 😆😆
I heard this once, models use it apparently. I imagine if it does that it might also encourage the skin to slacken more after and would have a long term worse outcome ;D who knows, I may have started this thread but anusol on the face, no! ;D
-
You're saying that the cream that you are buying from US for the face consists of 0.11 % estriol?? :o
Well that is slightly more than the concentration of estriol in Ovestin which ia TEN TIMES STRONGER than the other generic estriol cream at 0.01% !!!
Hurdity x
[/quote]
I hear what you've said Hurdity and thanks, but just flagging this bit up, I had NO IDEA I could get a weaker vaginal cream. Okay I'm changing the conversation for a moment away from face cream, but I have had such problems with vaginal creams and tablets, I react badly to them (even though they say it's a tiny dose and shouldn't get in the blood stream I get predictable migraine, sensitivity to sound, sometimes even postural hypotension after using the tablets, I'm not so sure yet with ovestin, haven't given it a chance, but something really weak to start would be great and I had no idea you could get weaker than ovestin, so thanks for this)
Also quickly, just in case you don't read my other entries, I think I noticed some positive benefit from a phytoestrogen cream (iHerb). You mentioned earlier that you thought these might be safe, this one has red clover and other phytoestrogens in, do you think it would be weaker still? (just your view, I know you won't know for sure) :)
-
Any way I have got it yesterday and applied to my face before I went to bed. It is cosmetic product designed to improve face skin and it does its job, but at the moment I cannot say how it affects my whole body, because have not noticed any changes from the first use of it.
Thanks for sharing your experience AngelaH, I'd be interested to hear how it goes, both for the face and generally :)
-
So I am back with update, I have very good result using Wellsprings face serum, no wrinkles left at all on my face and the face has very fresh look, I remember I used to look like that in my early 40s, now I am 53. I use it once a day and every other day. It does go to the blood stream in my body and I have the same effect as with Blissel. My main meno symptoms were extremely fatigue and nausea, both Wellsprings and Blissel stopped them and, I am feeling normal and energetic, plus my vagina and face are very happy too. No side effects or allergic reactions so far.
I need to mention I am very sensitive to sex hormones, this is why Mirena coil, medication for VA treatment and face serum do go to my blood stream very quickly and they make significant changes to my whole body, good or bad depending on my body needs.
-
I'm wondering if I have similar problems. I'm fine with patches for estradiol but my body reacts badly to vaginal oestrogen and I get a horrible dizzy head and sensitivity to sound and even postural hypotension.
I couldn’t tolerate patches, any product with estradiol made me extremely ill, the worst was spray, it made me very sedated and I felt like a zombie, it took me a couple of days to recover after using just 1 spray. I think the problem with VA treatment is the vagina has very thin tissues and absorption in this case can be much higher and quicker than using the same product on the skin.
The only way to find out what is the best for you is to try as many options as you can.
-
I'm wondering if I have similar problems. I'm fine with patches for estradiol but my body reacts badly to vaginal oestrogen and I get a horrible dizzy head and sensitivity to sound and even postural hypotension.
I couldn’t tolerate patches, any product with estradiol made me extremely ill, the worst was spray, it made me very sedated and I felt like a zombie, it took me a couple of days to recover after using just 1 spray. I think the problem with VA treatment is the vagina has very thin tissues and absorption in this case can be much higher and quicker than using the same product on the skin.
The only way to find out what is the best for you is to try as many options as you can.
AmandaH, one of my friends is an ageing hippie, he told me that they've known for a long time that drugs used on those tissues enters the bloodstream quicker :o ;D (I can't believe he told me that but he did, he doesn't do that sort of thing himself but knew people who did it 'back in the day.') but I was listening to the conventional medical line that it should not enter the bloodstream, or minimally. I'm sure in many cases it's fine but not for me, I definitely have systemic effects and they are frightening, the postural hypotension is extreme.
Anyway, thanks, I will be asking my doctor about Blissel and also the lower dose estriol. :)
-
So I am back with update, I have very good result using Wellsprings face serum, no wrinkles left at all on my face and the face has very fresh look, I remember I used to look like that in my early 40s, now I am 53. I use it once a day and every other day. It does go to the blood stream in my body and I have the same effect as with Blissel. My main meno symptoms were extremely fatigue and nausea, both Wellsprings and Blissel stopped them and, I am feeling normal and energetic, plus my vagina and face are very happy too. No side effects or allergic reactions so far.
I need to mention I am very sensitive to sex hormones, this is why Mirena coil, medication for VA treatment and face serum do go to my blood stream very quickly and they make significant changes to my whole body, good or bad depending on my body needs.
Really interesting, thanks! I will talk to the doctor about all of this soon. :)
-
Hi KaraShannon. Not on the forum much lately & have only scanned this thread but couldn't see mention of chloasma/melasma? This is the dark pigmentation that can occur on skin that's thought to have a hormonal association & has been linked in the medical literature with use of sex hormones in OCPs & HRT. Genetic susceptibility is also thought to play a part, I think.
I've never used any form of HRT on or near my face, but shortly after starting systemic HRT in my early 50s, developed chloasma, just a few small patches on my face. I'm quite fair-skinned, have never used makeup other than on eyes & lips & don't intend to begin at this age (early 60s) so the patches remain uncovered & though faint are obvious to me. Imagine use of oestrogen containing creams on the face might make women more prone to this condition & just thought it sensible to mention in case anyone reading is unaware of the association. Maybe have a google if you weren't aware of it & want to know more?
Wx
-
[quote author=KaraShannon
AmandaH, one of my friends is an ageing hippie, he told me that they've known for a long time that drugs used on those tissues enters the bloodstream quicker :o ;D (I can't believe he told me that but he did, he doesn't do that sort of thing himself but knew people who did it 'back in the day.') but I was listening to the conventional medical line that it should not enter the bloodstream, or minimally. I'm sure in many cases it's fine but not for me, I definitely have systemic effects and they are frightening, the postural hypotension is extreme.
[/quote]
I have met ladies in real life (not internet), who had systemic effects on their bodies using Mirena coil or VA creams the same way as me, so I know I am not the only one with incredible hormonal sensitivity issues. Unfortunately GPs don’t recognise that, I talked to different doctors about how the Mirena completely changed my peri meno life, they told me it shouldn’t really be happened to me, so they did not find any explanation why it happened to me. Of course now when I have the same result with using VA treatment, I am not going to discuss it with doctors, I know it will come beyond their understanding anyway.
I just continue my treatment as it is, I am happy with it and let the scientists to find out what is going on in ours bodies. ::)