Menopause Matters Forum
Menopause Discussion => Other Health Discussion => Topic started by: CLKD on January 13, 2016, 04:38:00 PM
-
:-\
In recent weeks I've had lots of physical reminders about how bad depression can/might be. In the 1990s I was very ill. Gradually my GP and I found an AD which helped, not a cure but certainly got me out of bed again. Add to that a BB at night and an emergency pill 'as necessary', generally I get on OK, half a day at a time.
Because I've had depression again recently it got me thinking. Why can memories recall the physicality of the depression as I suffered in the 1990s. But I can't recall physically happier days? i.e. my marriage, our 25th wedding celebrations; our 30th is memorable but not in the physical sense, in that I know it was a good time, mainly in that I can't remember any anxiety; but I can't get back the 'feelings' ………. clear as mud? I can remember the joy of seeing Skye for the 1st time and we ran out of words to describe the beauty after 3 days 8) …….. I remember wandering around Plockton, first visited in the early 1970s and I took DH there 10 years ago. But I don't get a thrill of pleasure ……..
Bugga ……… many years ago a Psychologist told me to 'recall the feelings you have on a good day, which will replace the anxiety you have now' ………. :-\
-
For me I think that the depression (and I didn't realise I was depressed until recently when medication started to lift it) makes my emotions flat which is why I struggle to find joy in things. Everything is so flat. But only this week I got pleasure from some new household items that I have wanted for a long time and that told me that I am starting to 'feel' again.
-
Are you displaying said items or going to use them ;)
However: can you recall the physicality of happiness from years ago or is it a memory.
-
oh they are practical items that badly needed replacing.
I can remember how I used to get excited about things I was looking forward to. Haven't done that for a very long time. Spent far too long dreading things but beginning to look forward to family events later in the year a little bit which is promising.
I have spent far too long fighting this and since I caved in and asked for help I am starting to see a difference.
-
:tulips: long may it last!
-
Although I do always score highly on those depression assessment scales, I don't tend to think of myself as depressed just very very anxious. And if I think about times I've been panicky or anxious it can trigger those feelings in me again. Just the last week I started thinking how it all started the last time I had a breakdown in 2003/4 with headaches and dizziness and how I didn't want that to happen again and lo and behold I've now got those symptoms again.
-
R U able to recall happiness in the same way?
-
How does that expectation feel?
-
Not as much as I once could. I used to keep a diary as a kid and read them sometimes and I can get a sense of a time when I was so much happier. I can laugh about things from then but it is harder to remember any times when it was as easy to be happy in the last few years.
-
CLKD, is it during your recent depression that you've been unable to recall happy moments, or has it always been like that?
I can have total recall of happy moments, but it usually needs a physical 'trigger' - something I can see, taste, touch, smell or hear. For example, a stone brought back from a holiday in NZ 10 years ago - holding it brought back total recall of the day I found it. I can usually bring up the memory and feeling deliberately, if it was a strong one, although the 'best' recalls are always the ones that arrive unexpectedly.
However, following my father's death, I lost this ability for several months. I would look at a photo or touch an object and think 'yes, that was a happy time', but it was just like saying 'yes, that is a large blue notebook' - it was a statement of fact, but I had no emotion connected to it. Looking back, I think I was suffering from depression at that time. I can often lift 'ordinary' down moments by recalling good times, but it just didn't work then.
-
I have never been able to feel happy times ……….. but recall of any horrors or upsets bring back the physicality.
-
That's really sad - I wonder if there is any way of improving your ability to recall happy times? Might be worth looking into. I know with dogs you can sometimes train them to associate something with happy times (e.g. a toy, owner singing to them) and then use the same thing to calm them during stressful times, so maybe it is possible to do the same thing with people?
-
Not for me :-\ - bad memories have the habit of falling into my brain as I'm dropping off to sleep then I jump/jerk and go 'oh' out loud :'(
-
well done!
-
I'm like sparkle, smells & songs take me right back to moments in the past.
-
Mown grass
Air that I breath
Leaving on a Jet Plane ………. but I don't feel the memories
It's like if someone tells me that they are suffering from a cold I know how the symptoms can make *them* feel, I don't feel the dry mouth, itchy nose, sore eyes unless I have the Germ …….. :-\
-
I'm exactly like you Dorothy (that's the 2nd time I posted that tonight). When my mood is very low I can look at photos and 'know' I felt very happy when they were taken, but I cannot feel any inner echoes of that happiness. It's like there is a mental block stopping me experiencing any feeling of joy, pleasure or optimism. Instead there is just a flat deadness tinged with a knotted anxiety.
Before now I always assumed depression was just feeling very, very sad. But it's not like that for me. Instead it's just an absence of emotion, just a flat empty nothingness. Actual sadness would be much better.
Then it goes away, and it's like all my inner lights have been switched back on. I feel hope, pleasure and excitement and it almost frightens me because after feeling so low, it's almost overwhelming.
-
GRL, that's twice you've been exactly like me. You should be worried. Very, very worried. ;D ;D ;D
You are so right about depression - I am so glad I didn't have it permanently and feel so sad for those who do. I've felt 'depressed' before, but that was a whole different thing. At least it's given me a better understanding of what it is like to suffer this way.
-
I was depressed throughout my childhood. It was like having a blanket over my head. I do recall happier moments eg Christmas wonder, but I didn't really know what happiness was. I remember looking out of the window at college at not a particularly inspiring view, say probably when I was 19 and experiencing a good feeling. There was no particular reason other than I was where I wanted to be and away from where I didn't want to be. I believe the new feeling was happiness. It comes from within. It's always there, but depression stops you from assessing it. What causes depression? Certainly in my case it was caused by circumstances and as it was in my formative years, has caused physical and health issues. But in others there is a physical cause eg manic depression, which cannot be explained by life experience.
-
Manic depression isn't 'physical', no depression is.
Depression is either situational (clinical) or caused organically in that the brain doesn't make the 'right' chemicals to keep the brain healthy. I have both :-\. Clinical depression is similar in that the person is in situations that they can't alter, so they begin to feel low and frustrated; add to that not eating properly or drinking too much alcohol or ……. the brain doesn't get supported so it becomes depressed. Organic depression can be sudden onset.
I was also depressed after I'd been on The Pill for 9 years, after 11 I had to stop taking it. HORMONES >:(. Since 1989 I have had organic depression; in that without daily medication I would dip after 22 months …….. until I can't get out of bed.
My Dad had manic depression. He would work continually for hours/days at a time with hardly a rest: his day-time job followed by pursuing his hobbies into the early hours ……. then he would be hit by depression so deep that he couldn't get out of bed :-\. He did have in-between moods, which is why I HATE the words 'bi-polar' because most sufferers have in-between moods as well as the intense lows and highs where they could fly to the moon and back!
-
What I mean by physical is that manic depression/ bi polar is not necessarily caused by environmental experiences. I'm not an expert on depression, but I understood that it could be inherited. I was diagnosed with just clinical depression, with what is now called OCD. Which is why I have been able to recover to a great extent away from the situation. What causes organical depression? Why won't your brain make the correct chemicals? Is it something you were born with? When I have bad IBS symptoms, I get low emotionally, not to the sererity of depression. I was told it was because I have a low store of serotonin, which is manufactured in the gut. If that is the case, doesn't it make it a physical symptom? However, IBS, like asthma is a somatic illness, which may originate from emotional causes and certainly can be triggered by emotional causes as well as physical causes. Yep, I'm confused!
Whatever.....depression and anxiety are horrible conditions to deal with. I would never want to go back to my childhood, but the experience has made me stronger and more empathetic.
-
Depression and OCD aren't the same :-\ but can be inter-connected, inter-dependant. My depression manifests itself alarmingly. I get really scared when it stays around for more than 2/3 days :'( and it's usually brain centric. I never understood how seretonin can be 'made' in the gut but is what the brain requires, dopamine springs to mind too.
I get U - re manic depression. As far as I understand from my family history, it is un-connected by environment in that it isn't a 'learnt' illness (though that was thought for years) but may be genetic or be Bcause the brain's chemicals have gone wrong. I suppose one can be born with not being able to make the 'correct' chemicals ….. not thought of that possibility as I didn't relies until recent years that young children can be depressed.
It would be nice to think that the more depression is talked about the more medics would be interested in finding treatments but mental health is way down on most budgets where ever in the World we live :-(.
My IBS can be triggered by stress. Due to my being anorexic-type from age 5 …… we're interconnected after all.
-
Manic depression isn't 'physical', no depression is.
Depression is either situational (clinical) or caused organically in that the brain doesn't make the 'right' chemicals to keep the brain healthy.
:-\
Err - the "right" chemicals not being present sounds like a real physical thing. Chemicals can be measured therefore they are physical.
-
That's physics :D ??? ………. that's how it is known that the brain ain't making the 'right' or enough chemicals but it doesn't make it physical ………. the - oh can't think of the word :bang: :bang: :bang: - result will have to do: the result of not enough chemicals in the brain = organic depression. Clinical depression manifests itself in a similar way due to situations people find themselves in. Now of course I can't think of a similar 'physical' condition to explain the difference :sigh:.
For me physicality is headache, gut ache, anxiety, stubbed toe ……..
-
That's physics
It's Chemistry or even biology - it's real but I don't think it's physics. Physics studies things like electro magnetic forces things like electricity, light and gravity
-
::) ……….
don't get me started on gravity, I fell off my slippers earlier >:( ;D
I could explain it verbally :-\ but find it more difficult to put down on the page what I need to share >sigh<
-
I'd always taken physical as being real or actual. Would that suffice?
-
Oh once again your posts are so helpful. I have nausea and a churning stomach and am off my food. I was sure that it was side effects from my ADs after 6 weeks even though I am feeling better, but seems it could be a flare of my IBS and that could be down to anything, just the stress of being medicated, a busy weekend, starting therapy............the list goes on. I don't really want to stop my ADs as I am starting to feel a wee bit better and it has been noticed and commented on :)
'Serotonin is made in the gut'. I didn't know that. My meds are SSRI which up serotonin. Would that be enough to upset my gut?
-
Perhaps that's why we talk about having gut feelings.
-
I wish I could stop worrying about what might/could happen - ie health stuff ...I find when I am stressed my mind seems to gravitate towards negative thoughts & I can convince myself that only bad stuff and all I worry/think about is going to happen... I loathe the way my mind works & all the anx - sometimes I just don't what it feels like to really relax and not be/feel fearful..
-
I wish I could stop worrying about what might/could happen - ie health stuff ...I find when I am stressed my mind seems to gravitate towards negative thoughts & I can convince myself that only bad stuff and all I worry/think about is going to happen... I loathe the way my mind works & all the anx - sometimes I just don't what it feels like to really relax and not be/feel fearful..
I think it really is just a case of putting one foot in front of the other some days and just getting through it. I find if I have a good few hours that I can then relax a bit more so that I get another good few hours, if that makes sense. I know what you mean about worrying and thinking about all the negative things - we never think that good things can happen or believe that our thoughts have any basis in reality when it's something good, so why do we assume that every bad thing has to to be true? I have no magic wand other than to say we just have to keep plugging away at saying so what or whatever to all the anxious thoughts we get until they diminish. They won't vanish as it is human to worry but we can make them less prominent by how we respond to them. Some days we will be better at it than others so don't feel that you aren't winning if you have a setback.
-
It makes absolute sense Coldethyl …….. but once anxiety hits I can't put 1 foot in front of the other >sigh<. Once the gut feelings kick in …….
I need to do more 'googling' stuff about seretonin :-\ ………. to get my head round it all ;)
I doubt if after 6 weeks your gut will be reacting to your AD. Maybe a reaction to the counselling. Don't stop either!
-
Coldethyl
I can relate to what you say - re putting one foot in front of the other, some days tho it takes so much mental/emotional strength its exhausting ...So many fears seem to have manifested with meno - mine all seem to focus more on health concerns & I don't classify myself as a hypochondriac ... Just worry about what might/could happen because of this or that that happened in the past... I know worrying does not serve any positive purpose and what will be and all that etc ..... I am trying to investigate " Mindfulness" and see if that has any positive effect.....
-
'wading through treacle'
-
:-\ in the early hours I went through this thread in my head …….. not making a lot of sense am I ::) in that when depressed it is mental and physical in that I ache ……..
Still can't explain myself :-X
This morning: not ecstatic but I found myself feeling happy :) - a good morning without anxiety!
-
I was inspired by yesterdays discussion to take my AD with food. I also decided to try cutting it in half and having half morning and evening, with food.
Took half this morning with my breakfast and, so far,less queasiness and tummy churning. Will take the other half with dinner and make mental notes to discuss with GP when I go.
thanks for the helpful input so far.
-
Hello Friends
There have been a lot of threads on the subject of anxiety recently, in particular health anxiety. It is something that I suffer from, so I have been following the posts with interest. One thing that has just occurred to me is that often you don't realise how bad your were/ are until you are starting to come out of it.
On and off I have had HA for about three years and peri symptoms for the same length of time. I've recently had a very bad patch and was on the verge of asking for ADs at the Drs ( I think I might have posted about it). In addition to the constant (every three minutes - I timed them) black, negative thoughts, I had pains everywhere, joints, muscles, stomach, IBS, you know the score. I was unable to go shopping or out for a meal in case I needed the toilet and could not find one. Although I appeared to be working (I work from home) in fact I was just staring at the computer or looking up illnesses on Google. I felt I could not plan anything for the future.
In a last ditch attempt to avoid the Dr (OH threatened to get her to come round to house as I was refusing to go) I decided to try a mindfulness app and also do some reading/research. I was very sceptical that anything could help as I had read some anxiety books in the summer and tried some suggested techniques like labelling thoughts but it just didn't work. So I read a book about a success story in recovering from HA (by a male writer) and also some extracts of more serious books (via Kindle samples), also I read the Ruby Wax book Sane New World. I downloaded the Headspace app onto my phone and began to do it every day. Just the free trial at first, but I have carried on and done the full paid for 30 days, plus the sleep app part every night and now I am working through the anxiety unit.
It's very very early days at the moment and I have only been shopping a couple of times and for a McDo (sad I know I love them). I know that everything could relapse BUT I have just noticed that 90% of the pains have gone. I did get a bad ovarian pain the other day, but instead of sitting in front of the computer looking up cancer I took an ibuprofen and carried on working. I've also noticed that the 'chattering' in my head has reduced - it's not gone, but I don't 'hear' it as much. I've also noticed that I am getting more proper work done. It could just be a coincidence but I wonder if there may be something in this mindfulness after all.
Thank you meno friends for being here, as others have said, there have been times when only the existence of the forum has kept me from total melt-down.
BB
-
BB, what an inspiring post. It takes courage for us to admit that we are suffering from HA as people assume it's something we can just control or pull ourselves out of at the drop of a hat when in fact, it's a living hell. As you will have seen, there's a few threads on the subject at the moment and it really helps me to read them and digest them as I am having a really bad bout again, centred around my heart this time. Been through breast, kidneys and bowels...all okay but convinced it's the real thing this time. Have gone from coping to completely not coping within the space of a week. Have been worse since I plucked up courage to go to Drs about chest discomfort but she knew I had anxiety and depression and my ECG was ok when I went to a&e in August so have got ADs again with some diazepam. I too have read the RubyWax book and most of the rest but can't believe that I am not I'll with angina etc. I know I will end up having tests that I don't want but I am panicking that it will be missed and too late. Read a Daily Mail story recently that said of a woman going through meno with chest pains, told her all ok but then she changed her diet, did some exercise and promptly dropped dead one night on the bathroom floor!! So, I can't get that image out of my head no matter what I try to distract it with. I know I am my own worst enemy. Just done some tidying away, sorting laundry etc and chest ache came on so now in meltdown thinking I was just coping today. It's ridiculous...think I need to just sit outside a&e ever day! Family think I am stupid and a bit of a joke.
Your post is so good. I need to be where you are and get a grip.
-
How many don't drop dead :-\ ……… I could tell some tales but won't ;). We have health anxiety thread here but being forgetful, I can't remember where :D
I haven't been anxious 2-day. I have been quite happy ….
-
Sorry BB, just hijacked a completely positive, rational thread by being a panicking numpty.
Think the HA threads are a bit here, there and everywhere on the forum...maybe an idea to have a separate lone thread as there seems to be a few with it maybe?
-
lone or loon? ::)
-
Definitely 'Loon' in my case ::)
-
Loons are wonderful birds ( called Great Northern Divers over here.) A family of them live on the lake where my son stays for most of the summer in the USA. They make a ghostly sound day and night. So I would opt for loon! You're in good company! Oh in Canada they have coins called loons, after the birds......just a bit of loony trivia! ::)
-
Ha ha JuJu, just a Great Northern Nutter' here.... :-\
-
Feel like one though Sparkle to be honest. Have had good spells in between but they seem so long ago. My Mum and I were going on cruises till 18 months ago when this got bad again but since then she's not really up to it either...happy days. X
-
Hey Jules - thanks for your kind words, I never thought of my post as positive ;D I know exactly how you are feeling and only hope you are feeling better today. I sympathise about your cruises - I want to walk the Camino in Spain with OH, he has done it before. We had planned to do it in Spring and I have all the kit, but I am nowhere near fit. At Christmas he said we had better postpone it - I was so relieved. I had been worrying about it so much - now this will make you laugh, I wasn't worried about my feet getting sore or it raining or carrying my stuff. I was worried about finding toilets! It's like I have some b**** toilet obsession. So we are not going, but I still hope to do it one year.
Strangely I don't seem to worry about heart stuff, maybe I should as it is what finished off most of my near relatives. My Mother had Alzheimer's and I don't worry about that either. Cancer is my fear, and I've been worrying about pancreas cancer for about three years (due to pain in back caused by computer mouse - see I even know what causes it!). Now if I did have it, then I would be dead by now, but still the fear is there and even typing this there is a small voice telling me that I am 'tempting fate'.
All I can say is that you just have to keep taking one day at a time. Perhaps give this mindfulness thing a go, I don't know if it works or if I am just in a good patch. And keep away from the Daily Mail's health stories - they are renowned for fear-mongering. I also found the No More Panic forum made me worse, but I know some would disagree.
BB
-
I have experience of other forums over the years and this is the only one that makes me feel better each morning and less isolated in my worries. It is also good to be able to support others sometimes.
I was out of my mind with worry over a family event but since being honest with my family I find they are all supportive and I am not now going to the event that was causing me such angst.
-
Thanks BB. I can fully understand the toilet dramas...have IBS so always need to know where to go if needed. Yes, done the pancreatic c thing too, especially since my friend at work lost a family member to it last year which I had every little detail of. Giving everything a 'go' at the moment but I know that tests will be the only possible reassurance so feel like everything else is in vain.
This forum is such a relief to find. Agree with BJ as well saying that the No More Panic Forum makes me much worse. Just don't want to hijack a forum that is really about meno probs and moan all the time!
x
-
well done BJ!
-
BettyB,
I could very much relate to your HA post. That has been
my life for the past year, googling symptoms, diagnosing myself with fatal illnesses. Very weary making. I did have to resort to anxiety meds which have helped, but not 100%. It is inspiring to
know you have found some peace right now. I also found a lot of my physical symptoms have decreased when I get the mental side of things calmer. It is a daily struggle, not letting my mind go completely off the edge, but at least I know the good days are possible. Positive posts like yours give hope to those of us who are in the thick of it and are looking for any sign
that this, too, shall pass. Thank you to all
who share their experiences. It helps to know you are not alone!
-
I've always had a thing about loos but mainly in case I needed a wee. Think it stems from something that happened when I was little and got caught short as they say. I panicked once in Spain as I could see signs both ends of a street but no loo in the middle, turned out it was in a cafe so had to buy a drink to use the loo! I panic in traffic jams, stuck on trains etc as soon as you stop you start thinking about it!
Apart from the fact that meno does weird stuff to our brains, I do wonder if we panic about C more because there does seem to be so much more of it around, especially in the Daily M. I can't remember any kids having it when I grew up, unless they were the ones that "moved" but no kids seemed to be that sick and yet hospitals are full of kids with it now. I can remember never even giving it a thought when I was younger but again, it's in the news more, you know more people who have had it and as we get older I guess we can't help thinking about it. Unfortunately it's the ultimate scary thing..... However, maybe we might all better if we didn't Google but it's there lurking with answers and if you have a mind like mind which wants to know "stuff" then you can't help it.
I've tried to resist Googling at the moment, it's hard, it's like an itch that needs to be scratched.
-
Wombat, that's exactly what it is like. My therapist said its like a drug user having to have their 'fix' and is a form of OCD apparently, looking for reassurance etc but at the same time scaring ourselves witless. I am trying to stick to this forum at the moment as its so helpful and comforting to know that there are others suffering just as much and going through the same. I just need to keep off the Daily Mail now ::)
-
Hi Everyone
Yes, JJ I read elsewhere that Googling symptoms is a form of OCD. I hope that doesn't apply to coming on this Forum ;D
The thing is that Google isn't really giving us the answers ie. as in the truth - its giving us what it and its algorithms want us to see, the most popular websites and threads. I have come to understand this after reading the book I mentioned - I will try to find the quote later as it is all explained, the book was How to beat health anxiety by Micheal Evans. It was relatively expensive and some reviews criticised it for being short, but I read the Kindle sample and wanted to finish it. It was that which inspired me to try to meditating thing. Its not a professional CBT type book, it's just the author's story of how he beat HA, but he explains why the cancer websites and the Daily Mail are at the top of page one for Google. It's because they are the most read and most shared. The DM isn't going to print stories about normal people who have nothing wrong with them - they want to attract readers.
I've thought about the cancer thing too. It does seem to be more prevalent nowadays, but I wonder if it is because a lot of the things that would have killed people off in the old days have been eradicated or there are vaccinations/ cures.
Anyway, we will see if I am really making any progress as OH has told me that tomorrow he is taking me out to lunch :o :o :o
-
Ha, my son tells me that about Google BB! I will have a look at that book, although I don't know how I missed it as I have all the others!
I have decided that this is the 'Mentalpause' not menopause... ;D
Hope you get out to enjoy your lunch tomorrow.
X
-
I wouldn't put the Daily Mail under my chickens' roost >:( ……… in general the media cherry pick what will sell papers. I remember reading a scare story in 1 'daily' but the Research was over 50 years old when we looked into it, but it had been written as though it was 'new' findings. Trouble is, the 'dailies' don't put References, Calls for Papers etc. so there is little way of checking how much might be true.
Children had polio in my day so either didn't live long enough or didn't survive cancer, until more recently. There wasn't the media coverage, children were encouraged not to ask questions …… teachers knew but we weren't told if a child disappeared. :-\
Stop reading the 'dailies' :-\ and remember, we did without GOOGLE until a few years ago. It would never cross my mind to look up illnesses ::) - I would go to a Pharmacist or my GP/Practice Nurse for advice. This is however, OT - we have a health anxiety thread.
I have been anxiety free since Friday morning :-\
-
That's great news CKLD. I am tentatively starting to talk about 'feeling better'. Bit scary after so long but I really am.
-
Any change up or down is scary for me ……… the 'what if' syndrome again.