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[Marchlove]

Gilla - as much as you love coffee, don’t have any the day you do your cortisol test.
Coffee increases cortisol so it will give you a false reading. X

[joziel]

Here is a super article I just found explaining the connection between estrogen and histamine: https://www.larabriden.com/the-curious-link-between-estrogen-and-histamine-intolerance/

"The connection between mast cells, histamine, and hormones is that:

Estrogen stimulates mast cells to release histamine and down-regulates the DAO enzyme that clears histamine. At the same time, histamine stimulates the ovaries to make more estrogen. The net result can be a vicious cycle of estrogen → histamine → estrogen → histamine.
Progesterone stabilises mast cells, up-regulates DAO, and can therefore reduce histamine.
Many of the symptoms attributed to so-called “estrogen dominance” (a term I do not use) are actually symptoms of histamine or mast cell activation. For example, mast cells and histamine play a role in both endometriosis and premenstrual dysphoric disorder (PMDD)."

As I also have mild endometriosis, all this is getting very interesting...

[CrispyChick]

Interesting indeed.

I'm one of those using the estrogen dominance term. 

I'm trying to use progesterone to balance me. When I start or up a dose it increases the suseptability of estrogen receptors to the estrogen, so my estrogenic symptoms get worse!! But actually - is it increasing my histamine? . Some of my symptons are very allergy like like full ears, dry sinuses. Bit they defo come with hormonal changes.

Either way, I'm hoping the prog eventually helps me balannce abd calms the side affects of  (in my case) low prog/normal estrogen = estrogen dominance in my case.

[Gilla999]

I'm hoping the same as you Crispy! I start my extra BHRT Prog lozenges in a few days time...

[joziel]

Crispy, yes allergy symptoms like that can be histamine - especially if you notice them at particular points in your cycle more than others.

I have a watery right eye(!), a drippy nose (always blowing my nose - wouldn't leave the house without a tissue up my sleeve) and over-production of mucous, especially after eating - resulting in a wet cough or sometimes it just comes into my throat and I swallow it... YUCK. These symptoms have gone on for years and I used to think they were low estrogen symptoms, but they haven't got any better since starting HRT (unlike so many other symptoms). So I wonder if they could be histamine related.

[CrispyChick]

It's such a minefield.

I've not noticed anything cyclical, but that's probably because I'm always trying something to alleviate my hormonal symptoms.

What I have noticed is a big flair of some symptoms on the pill... And also now, on bioidentical progesterone... I seem to be cycling through every friggin symptom I've ever had. Hopefully this before I balance out

One of my weirdest symptoms is a really sore scalp. Moving my hair is agony and my scalp tingles. Not got it just now, but did a few weeks ago. Then gone again  Maybe that's histamine

What dose lozenge gilla??

[Gilla999]

Crispy I'll be taking 25mg on top of the 100mg of Utro I use vaginally. My plan if all goes well is to work my way up but I want to start slowly.

Yesterday morning after removing the patch in the morning and switching to my Lenzetto in the afternoon I woke up with no wheals at all. This morning covered I am covered head to toe in them, so itchy... it's so strange but I'm wondering if it was the initial drop in Estrogen that happened when I switched from the Estradot back to Lenzetto that gave me a day of respite. I'm pre ovulation now so my E will be surging.

What dose are you on Crispy? And you're also taking BHRT Estrogen is that right?

[CrispyChick]

Awww no!!! That's awful gilla. But you're probably going to have to go through these trials to confirm, one way or another.

No estrogen here. I think, as do my clinic, I'm low prog compared to my estrogen (which is normal, not high). Do I'm only on bhrt prog. Had a rough time getting on it. I'm now on 40mg. Split between troche and cream. Also on testosterone.

Still getting every symptom under the sun. Plodding on though. 

[Marchlove]

Morning Gilla

Sorry to hear you are still having such awful symptoms.

I came across this very comprehensive up to date review of progesterone hypersensitivity.

https://www.uptodate.com/contents/progestogen-hypersensitivity/print

In the review it says that estrogen hypersensitivity is even rarer that progesterone hypersensitivity and the difficulties with allergy testing.

It’s a rather complicated issue it would seem but I thought you might like to read it.

X

[ATB]

Oh sorry to read your update Gilla, I have no wisdom to offer but just thinking of how frustrating and hard this must be for you.

[joziel]

Hives and itching are very classic histamine symptoms and increasing estrogen (or even adding it in as HRT) increases histamine in turn... So if you have histamine intolerance or were previously teetering on the edge of it, estrogen will push you over.

But you've no way to tell if this is histamine intolerance without doing a strict 2 week low histamine diet - which does mean cutting out tea and coffee and chocolate and many other things you might be used to eating. Unless you do that, you won't be able to confirm it. (Unless you have a high threshold and cutting out other things is sufficient to bring you below it. But that's a big assumption.)

[CrispyChick]

Excuse my ignorance...

But if high estrogen is causing high histamine for gilla through estrogen supplementation. How does cutting out histamine rich food prove it??? Surely the histamine from the estrogen would be a lot stronger than the food histamine, since it only triggered since supplementing with estrogen???

I get the low histamine diet if you struggle with histamine in general... But its not making sense for gilla... To me anyway. And it might only be me...

 

[joziel]

Crispy, it's all explained in the post above, this one: https://www.larabriden.com/the-curious-link-between-estrogen-and-histamine-intolerance/

Quote:

The connection between mast cells, histamine, and hormones is that:

* Estrogen stimulates mast cells to release histamine and down-regulates the DAO enzyme that clears histamine.
* At the same time, histamine stimulates the ovaries to make more estrogen.
* The net result can be a vicious cycle of estrogen → histamine → estrogen → histamine.

Progesterone stabilises mast cells, up-regulates DAO, and can therefore reduce histamine.

It's about reducing the histamine overall as much as you can. Many foods are extremely high in histamine which we regularly eat. If you almost eliminated the histamine you were eating, it would very likely be sufficient - after all, our bodies are supposed to cope with some amount of estrogen and the amount in HRT is not that high. A state of zero estrogen (as we all know!) is extremely bad for your health so that's definitely not what the goal is. It's when we massively increase histamine through what we ingest that things get a bit crazy.

[CrispyChick]

Yeah, I saw all that about the estrogen, histamine loop... Which is why I couldn't see how reducing it from the diet would solve it.

But hopefully for you it does 

[joziel]

The diet is the biggest source of it, so if we can eliminate it from there, it will fix things.

Although of course no idea if this is the cause of my problems at the moment.