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[Peacegirl]

Hi, I feel like such a failure when I hear women my age and oLder saying they didn't even notice menopause. I'm a bit desperate tbh and though my ideal situation would be to be hrt-free or at least using bioidenticals, I've just hit a tough year when, after 5 (lucky) years on prempak c, I developed muscoskeletal pain, chronic multiple mouth ulcers and infections and a return to hot flushes. My gp put me on evorel sequi and conti patches and my hair fell out big time. He then put me back on prempak c with a daily top up of Premarin and I hit the worst insomnia possible-some nights having 1 or 2 hours sleep and a couple of nights of no sleep. This went on for 3 weeks and I was hallucinating and feeling on the brink of desperation, fearing for my mental health actually. A GP then prescribed femoston conti but I'm scared to take it because I've managed to get some sleep by going back to using some evorel patches I had left. I have my first hrt clinic appointment next week by I'm really anxious as at my last gp appointment, he was dismissive (different gp) and lectured me on the ills of hrt- I had fully broken down in tears probably due to lack of sleep. Any advice of where to go from here or how to put things over at the clinic would be much appreciated. Sorry to be such a moaner, I just want a bit if quality-of-life back but have got a bit lost. Thanks

[Annie0710]

Hi and welcome

I've very limited knowledge on hrt as I had a hysterectomy years ago and got put on elleste solo pills which worked a treat until I then went in natural menopause so I'm now on patches

But I hear you when some women say they sailed through it

I work with a lady 4 years older than me who went through menopause in her 30s, she has hrt for 5 years and the dr said that's her limit so been off since and doesn't understand when I say I'll stay on it for life

My boss has just been informed she's menopausal and has said she doesn't need any help

I didn't want to be interrogated so just said I'm staying on to protect things

Personally I'd rather quality of life over quantity but to be fair I've had little quality since this meno thing reared its head a 2nd time, but starting to feel a little better

X

[Mary G]

Welcome to MM.

Your GP doesn't sound very helpful and should not be scaring you off HRT.  There are many short and long term health problems that are caused by oestrogen deprivation and it is important to know about them.  I wonder how he would cope with the debilitating symptoms you have described?

I would say that bioidentical HRT is the way to go and I can recommend Oestrogel (you rub it on your skin) and Utrogestan which is a micronised progesterone which is best used vaginally but there are other forms of progesterone that you can use with Oestrogel.  I have found it to be the most effective HRT regime by far and like the flexibility of the gel because you can easily adjust the dose to suit your needs. 

I hope that helps but I'm sure others will be along with their recommendations too.

[CLKD]

   at a time when you need support you are low, weepy and not able to put your point over.

If HRT didn't work for you, those 5 years would have been awful too! 

Has your GP done any blood tests etc., as multiple mouth ulcers can be caused by various conditions.  Thyroid function tests, VitD, anemia???

You are certainly not a failure but are being 'failed' by your GP practice!  Browse round here, make notes. Some ladies find that keeping a mood/food/symptom diary useful.  Then pick out the symptom you want sorted first and work through them.  Take a list to the Clinic appt., tell them how you were for 5 years and that now your hormones are all over the place!!!

If you don't get a good response then maybe ring Professor Studd's secretary for advice.  Let us know how you get on.  This is The Change, something many medics don't 'get'!

[Peacegirl]

Such lovely support. Thank you.  :)I had 5 hours sleep last night and this is good, not great but ok. I've had a lot of blood tests as my mum had a thyroid problem which went undiagnosed and possibly contributed to the cancer she got. Bloods have been good except for low white cell count sometimes, borderline under-active thyroid and too much of one hormone (didn't hear what he said as was weeping) which probably caused the hair loss. I will try and be solution-focused at appointment. I.e as suggested mention good years on prempak and patches were OK except for hair loss. Insomnia is definitely not an OK symptom for me, but I can live with occasional ulcers. I totally agree with quality over quantity - I have been thinking I'm not sure if I want to live like this for too long. Thanks for the advice, hopefully I get someone who is understanding at the clinic and I will ask about the bioidenticals, I really like the idea of dose-control as I have learned to recognise oestrogen highs. I will investigate professor studd too.
Annie0710, I hope you also get what you need too X.   

[Hurdity]

Hi peacegirl

  from me too.

Just to say I agree with you and others that bio-identical hormones (as in those that are the same as our body makes - not compounded bio-identical hormone replacement therapy) are the way to go and especially re the hair shedding.

As Stellajane says they are all listed under Treatments/HRT preparations. I have (almost) always used Estradot patches which are way smaller than Evorel and do the job really well - together with micronised progesterone (Utrogestan) on a long cycle.

You haven't said how old you are and presumably you are now post-menopausal so your hormones surges have dampened?

Do not feel a failure! None of us on here who take HRT do - in fact we fell the opposite as we have made the choice to take our life into our own hands, have read about the pros and cons and have decided that it is better for our health and well-being to take HRT. What's not to like?

Great that you have a menopause clinic appointment. Do all the research you can about what you want to try and be prepared to argue your case. You should not need  to investigate private treatment especially if you already have a specialist referral - as long as you know what you want to try!

Btw re the thyroid - if you are borderline - was it TSH that was higher than ideal or did you have T3 and T4 measured too? This could also partly explain some of your symptoms as you say - is this being treated? It is often difficult to disentangle what's due to what at menopause. Transdermal HRT is also better if you have thyroid problems so I've read - at least if you are taking thyroid medication as it affects availability of one of the thyroid hormones (sorry can't remember which!).

Hurdity x

[Peacegirl]

Hi Peacegirl - its the progesterone in Evorel (Norethisterone) that can cause hair shedding. I had to come off it for that reason.

If you take a look at the list of HRT treatments at the top of the page under the green header you'll be able to see the ones to avoid.

Don't despair - there is a solution out there!

Hi, yes I see that it's a tesosterone derived progesterone and that this is the problem. I will look at the treatment list, thanks. My appointment is Tuesday so I will spend some time this weekend exploring possibilities.

[Peacegirl]

Hi peacegirl

  from me too.

Just to say I agree with you and others that bio-identical hormones (as in those that are the same as our body makes - not compounded bio-identical hormone replacement therapy) are the way to go and especially re the hair shedding.

As Stellajane says they are all listed under Treatments/HRT preparations. I have (almost) always used Estradot patches which are way smaller than Evorel and do the job really well - together with micronised progesterone (Utrogestan) on a long cycle.

You haven't said how old you are and presumably you are now post-menopausal so your hormones surges have dampened?

Do not feel a failure! None of us on here who take HRT do - in fact we fell the opposite as we have made the choice to take our life into our own hands, have read about the pros and cons and have decided that it is better for our health and well-being to take HRT. What's not to like?

Great that you have a menopause clinic appointment. Do all the research you can about what you want to try and be prepared to argue your case. You should not need  to investigate private treatment especially if you already have a specialist referral - as long as you know what you want to try!

Btw re the thyroid - if you are borderline - was it TSH that was higher than ideal or did you have T3 and T4 measured too? This could also partly explain some of your symptoms as you say - is this being treated? It is often difficult to disentangle what's due to what at menopause. Transdermal HRT is also better if you have thyroid problems so I've read - at least if you are taking thyroid medication as it affects availability of one of the thyroid hormones (sorry can't remember which!).

Hurdity x

Thanks for the welcome. No treatment for the thyroid as only just under-active and I'm not sure what the levels were although t3 and t4 were measured but I had to push to get that tested. Admittedly, even though I'm assertive elsewhere, at the docs I feel like a hypochondriac and didn't ask for the detail of my results. I guess they'll keep an eye on it if I ask.

[peegeetip]

Hi

"Hi, I feel like such a failure when I hear women my age and oLder saying they didn't even notice menopause."

This is myth 1.

No woman is going to get thru menopause untouched.
I thought that about my own mother until recently and realised very late that she had womans problems for years.
But if I'd asked she'd have said all was great.

-----

"I'm a bit desperate tbh and though my ideal situation would be to be hrt-free or at least using bioidenticals"

Myth 2

All other HRT in the uk - other than prempak - uses bioidentical estrogen.
There are a variety of choices for the prog part of your hrt - and all have varied benefits and differences.

-----

"A GP then prescribed femoston conti but I'm scared to take it because I've managed to get some sleep by going back to using some evorel patches I had left"

Myth 3

Both options have the same estrogen component - different delivery though. Some people take better to tablet form of HRT and there are benefits to both tablet and patch.

-----

"Sorry to be such a moaner, I just want a bit if quality-of-life back but have got a bit lost"

Myth 4

No one is a moaner here. It is just a place to come to and say whats good or bad - question or agree/disagree. I hope you get the quality back soon. Say as much or as little as you like.

-----

On the Femoston Conti - it uses a Prog part that is supposed to be easy on most ladies. Give it at least 3 months - best to wait 6 months to get used to this new HRT.

Hope you get back to normal asap.

 

[Urbanchick]

peegeetip - your point about being a moaner rang true.  I got to the GP today and when she said 'how are you?', I automatically said 'great!'  Obviously I wasn't - I was at the doctors!    I have found most women of my age have some meno issues, but its only when I've asked that they've admitted it.   It isn't [yet] something to talk about.   My mum had HRT withdrawn suddenly when it became 'dangerous' and suffered really badly -she just didn't tell me at the time.

So moan away!

[peegeetip]

I never thought to ask
- she never thought to say
(was it due to being embarrassed, uninformed, resolute to plough on, thought it would go away, didnt know what to say, sex didn't happen anymore, scared to take HRT etc etc etc).

It pains me to think I didn't see it sooner,
but when people say how are you - and we / they say "oh fine"
then we can't blame ourselves too much?!

I just wish she could have talked to me and I to her, sooner.

[Kathleen]

Hello ladies.

I just wanted to chime in and say that my 75 year old neighbour told me that he didn't think his wife actually went through the menopause! Odd as she's 70 now so is she still menstruating? They had 3 children so it's not as if she didn't make it through puberty! Incidentally they both started drinking in their forties and she told me that if she'd been less grumpy things may've been different in their family.

My mother never mentioned her menopause to me but she may have confided in her friends and sisters.

One thing is for certain,  I never expected to feel the horrible things that meno has thrown at me and I have nothing but sympathy for other sufferers.

Take care ladies.

K.

[Mary G]

I think a lot of women suffer from denial syndrome.  When someone is faced with a problem they 'think' they cannot resolve, they often pretend it doesn't exist. 

What worries me the most on MM is amount of women who are still being scared off HRT and suffering unnecessarily.  Why is it OK to use birth control but not HRT?  I see it as a natural progression and if I wasn't using HRT I would still be struggling with contraception which, in my case, is far more challenging. 

If only all medics had the same attitude to HRT as Professor Studd. 

[peegeetip]

totally agree Mary G.

the pill we take until docs propose it somehow becomes dangerous overnight.....

however studies show the pill protects us.

the pill would stop a lot of problems on the way thru peri.

the transition to HRT should be a simple thing.

in studies the damage is mainly in ladies with a "gap" in beginning meno and taking HRT.

if we sustain a similar level for a long period of time - then how does it suddenly become this bad/dangerous thing to do.

hypocrisy , uninformed and down right wrong seems to rule the way often.

 

[Dana]

I agree that it's a bit of a myth that there are so many women without symptoms. They just don't realise that what they are experiencing is meno related, or they don't want to admit it because it would mean admitting they are getting older.

I have a number of friends in their 60s and 70s and there isn't one who doesn't complain about not sleeping well, while I just smile and say I sleep like a baby.

Also all of them complain of various things like aches and pains, poor memories, hair thinning, hot flushes (even those in their 70s), loss of energy etc. All these things can be attributed to the loss of estrogen.