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[Catscorpion]

Hello everyone, I've been reading this forum with interest but can't seem to find the answer to my problem. I'm 52 and for the last 4 years my life was hell and I was prescribed anti depressants and referred for Cognitive Behaviour Therapy. None of these seemed to work and after reading this forum I truly believe its because I was peri menopausal.
I was constantly tired, no energy ever.
Horrendous depression where I didn't want to live anymore
No motivation etc etc.

Anyway (to try to cut a long story short)  about summertime I stopped my periods after a few years of being irregular and BAM!! Night sweats, hot flushes, zero motivation, gave up my job etc.
I have never been like this before now, I always worked, my house was spotless, my motivation and energy always high and always happy. I actually put my changed attitude down to the fact that my bad depression had caused me to be a different person and I had to accept this. Now I'm convinced that peri menopause caused my "depression" and as awful as its been I'm quite excited to get the old me back.

I went to see the Dr a couple of times, had blood tests for thyroids, and even menopause and was told in spring of last year that I was peri menopausal but offered no treatment and me being uninformed then, didn't realise the impact this was having on my life.
I had further blood tests in November and she said I was post menopause but my vitamin D and Calcium levels were so low, she prescribed Adcal and said to give it a few months (Lol at adcal being prescribed for menopause)

I went back to the doctors yesterday and ASKED to be placed on HRT and he prescribed cyclo progynova.
My question is this.... Haha I do waffle... Should I be prescribed a 'bleed' HRT?
Blood tests show I'm post menopausal but I have had a period about 7 months ago.
Will it harm me taking peri menopausal HRT if I'm actually post menopausal?

My Dr was great and I've to go back in 3 months to review things.
Also has anyone else had cyclo progynova and is it any good?

Thanks for having the patience to read this rambling post

Sharon x

[Dancinggirl]

Hi and welcome to MM Catscorpion
You story is very typical for many of the women who visit this site - we are here to support you.
Do read up all the info under the headings to the left of this screen - particularly the stuff under HRT preparations as it will give the information you need about what you are taking.  Though the HRt you have been given is not on this list, it is very similar to some that are. Are you UK based?
You have been given a sequential form of HRT because you are not 2 years into post meno - in other words 2 years without periods. Many women choose to remain on a sequi type of HRT well into post meno (which will give you a withdrawal bleed each month to keep the womb lining thin) because the progesterone part of HRT can cause problems - particularly if taken continuously.
Finding the right HRT preparation for you is often the real challenge so it's a matter of trial and error because we are all different.  I would give this HRT a go for 3 months and see how it goes - you may find it good. If this one doesn't suit you and you get some PMT type symptoms with the progesterone phase before the bleed then I'd recommend Femoston.
Is it a 1mg or 2mg dose in your HRT?
DG x

[Catscorpion]

Hi DG. Thank you for your reply.
I have read lots of stuff from the left of the screen, as I have in the forums. I'm a bit OCD and like to keep informed lol.
Cyclo progynova is actually on the list and I am UK based, if that helps. 
I don't mind trying it for 3 months either, I'm just relieved that I'm not going mad. I am worried about the dip in moods that I may experience with the combined HRT though  I don't mind experiencing PMT as long as my horrendous night sweats, hot flushes and motivational energy improves. I just want ME back.
I'm on 2mg dose btw and I've just taken my first tablet.... I'm actually really excited! Is this normal lol
Sharon x

[Hurdity]

Hi Catscorpion

 

Sorry to hear about all your health problems and echo Dancinggirl's post re what has happened to you - due to uninformed or unaware medical profession.

Actually it is 12 months you need to go without a period before being given continuous combined HRT but in any case you haven't reached that yet!

Regarding that preparation - it is one of the ones listed under Peri-menopause medium dose:
CYCLO-PROGYNOVA 2mg*    Estradiol valerate 2mg
Norgestrel 0.5mg for 10 days/21, followed by 7 tablet-free days.
http://www.menopausematters.co.uk/postmeno.php

***However there is an error in the listing as you take Estradiol valerate 2 mg for 11 days and then the combined tabs for 10 days followed by the 7 tablet free days.

but it is not very often prescribed. It is designed to mimic the menstrual cycle to some extent, but without the really high oestrgoen dose that we normally experience, and is unique ( I believe) amongst HRT in having 7 tablet free days. Therefore personally I wouldn't choose this one because in the tablet free days you may well experience the worst aspects of pms - ie the oestrogen dip - which can affect mood and increase anxiety, together with the progesterone withdrawal - which can lead to typical pre-menstrual tension, headache etc. This is aside from possible side effects of the progestogen.

You may get a reply from someone on this HRT but I don't think any of the regular posters are using it or have used it.

Personally I wouldn't start this one  - unless you've already had the prescription made up - and would ask for a different preparation like Femoston as Dancinggirl suggests, starting with the 1/10 dose and increasing if this doesn't deal with your symptoms after 3 months. One way you could use it (if you;ve already got it) is to avoid the tablet free days but then your cycle would be too short!

Good luck and let us know how you get on!

Hurdity x

***Later edit: just realised it's not an error in the listing as all the HRT types are listed like that ie it gives the oestrogen dose and then the number of days that there are combi tabs with the progestogen.

[Catscorpion]

Hi hurdity, thank you for your reply.
I have started taking it, unfortunately I couldn't wait, I was so excited! Sad or what?
I actually have a DR's appointment next Wednesday but with a different doctor. I think I'm going to carry on taking it until then and ask to be switched to Femoston. I know I probably shouldn't take it if I'm asking to be switched but I figure if I ask before the tablet free week, some of my symptoms might have gone, especially night sweats!
Can I also ask, tablets or patches? Any preference?

It makes sense as you both suggested that the tablet free days are going to be yuk! Why didn't I think of that grrrr. To be honest, I think my Dr prescribed this because he thought I needed tablet free days to have a bleed. He was really nice about me taking HRT but a bit clueless. I should really have questioned his choice when he got his big medicine book out! 

Another question.... Lol. How long is it before I will stop with flushes and night sweats?
Thank you soooo much btw. This website has been an absolute godsend x

[Dancinggirl]

Hi Catscorpion
I'm afraid many GPs are pretty clueless when it comes to HRT.
I think Hurdity is absolutely right about the HRT you have been given.  If you are given the Femoston (I would be quite assertive about this) then you could probably just switch to this straight away.
Re the Adcal, I would still continue to take this as it could be important for your bones. Vitamin D deficiency is quite common due to lack of sunlight and they now know it can be a factor in low mood, poor energy levels and can help prevent some cancers etc. - so well worth taking through the winter months.
Keep us posted  DG x

[Hurdity]

Hi again

You asked about tablets or patches - I have always been a "nil-by-mouth" gal when it comes to HRT so have only ever used patches. At your age it is a personal preference and depends on how you normally react to tablet medication. Some women experience more sdie effects from tablet HRT because you have to take a relatively large amount of hormone in order to increase the blood levels sufficiently - because much is lost through liver metabolism and digestion. Many women thrive on them though!

When you get to 60 it is prefereable to transfer to transdermal/bio-identical HRT (like I am on: oestrogen patches and Utrogestan - progesterone) as it is thought to be associated with fewer risks.

Hurdity x

[Catscorpion]

First of all..... THANK YOU ladies for your replies, they have helped me enormously.
I went back to my drs today and she agreed that I have been given the wrong HRT. I am now the proud owner of Femoston 2/10  I feel better already and I only took my first tablet 2 hours ago lol. I wouldn't have thought to go back so early if it wasn't for your replies and help.
After one week of taking Cyclo Progynova, I can report the following...
Still having violent hot flushes and night sweats
Much more tired than usual
Pain in knee joints starting to get better (Calcium tablets or HRT?) I think HRT.

As I said before, I feel that my depression was misdiagnosed and that I was actually getting mental symptoms due to peri menopause, so I've asked to be taken off anti depressants and she suggested having 6 a week not 7 for a month and then going to 5. Then after a month going down to 15mg not 30 and weaning myself off. I'm quite excited about coming off anti depressants and will do it that way but may do it for 3 weeks etc and see how I feel.
I asked for testosterone to see if this helped my fatigue and she says they don't prescribe that but she booked me in for a blood test 6th Feb, to test my levels. Trust me, if they're low... I shall be "stating" my case very strongly to get testosterone lol.
When I mentioned patches as opposed to tablets, she said hot flushes might make them peel off???!!!! Therefore she wouldn't prescribe them until the flushes had gone.... On a point scoring principle, I let her have that one lol. Will ask for patches at my 3 month review.

All in all, I feel much more positive, just looking forward to the flushes/sweats and fatigue doing one, then I'm good to go :-)
Any ideas on how long it will take for flushes to go btw?

Once again, thank you so much!!!!!! Xx

[Dancinggirl]

Bravo Catscorpion
Femoston is a good one - I wouldn't rush to the patches as they have the synthetic progesterone which can give PMT type symptoms.
I would take your GPs advice about how to reduce your ADs  - more slowly is good as withdrawal symptoms can be tough to cope with and this also gives the HRT time to do it's magic.
I'm afraid they won't prescribe testosterone on the NHS - you'd need to get that privately from a gynae but I doubt you will need testosterone as,again, the HRT may up your energy levels.  The ADs may have been making you feel sedated so as you reduce them you should start to feel the energy return.
Good luck  DG x

[Hurdity]

Well done catscorpion - hope you begin to feel much better very soon.  I would say that tablets may not work as quickly as transdermal methods but you should begin to notice a lessening in the frequency of your flushes and sweats until hopefully - you will suddenly realise you don't get them any more 

I am amazed the doc agreed to test your testosterone levels on the NHS. I have asked about this several times (re tiredness) and was told they didn't do this - yet another example of inequalities in the care we experience.

Also a friend did tell me that even slight elevation in TSH ( thyroid stimulating hormone) - but within the normal range - can mean we operate sub-optimally and feel tired but that's even more difficult to look at in detail on NHS - ie they won't!

Hurdity x

[robotwars]

Hi Catscoprpion
I just wondered how you are getting on? I have been prescribed cyclo-prognova and im not sure if its the right one for me, I went back to gp to discuss this but he said to take it for 3 months then review, he said to take it on the 1st day of period, but im still waiting for it to happen, it's now a month late......just wondered how you were doing?

[GeordieGirl]

.

Also a friend did tell me that even slight elevation in TSH ( thyroid stimulating hormone) - but within the normal range - can mean we operate sub-optimally and feel tired but that's even more difficult to look at in detail on NHS - ie they won't!

I'm having a blood test for Thyroid in a few weeks as the last blood  test I had only measured TSH and T4, and not T3 or FT3. (?). It's on the back of an ECG test though  that showed a slow heart rate and stopped me having sedation for a recent procedure. I'm not actually over worried about my heart as I've always had a low heart rate and BP (as has my mum), but the doctor did think thyroid may be having an effect (clutching at straws perhaps but at least it'll be reassuring).

Actually thinking about it, perhaps a lack of oestrogen could be slowing it further too as it's a muscle? It's quite amazing the issues a few missing hormones can kick up. 

Glad to hear your Dr is on top of your treatment now Sharon and you're feeling you're on the right path.

GG x

[GeordieGirl]

Actually thinking about it, perhaps a lack of oestrogen could be slowing (my heart) further too as it's a muscle? It's quite amazing the issues a few missing hormones can kick up. 

Just googled this and it looks likely. Why didn't Doc think of this? Really?

Catscorpion I envy you a doctor who has a clue.

GG x

[Tinamarie]

Hi
I have just read your post and how you have described how you have been feeling is just how I have been .
I was always busy working doing housework and generally active but last august I started to feel very down and had no energy and basically gave up . I couldn't get out of the feeling so went to the doc who said I was depressed so put me on anti depressants which I felt were not helping me and I was getting worse . I kept going back to the doc and eventually I had a blood test done and was found to be pre menopausal but because it was early days the doc would not put me on hrt so I was just going through each day feeling so low that some days I wouldn't even get dressed my kids noticed I was so different . To cut a long story short  my daughter came home from school to find me just sitting on the sofa in my dressing gown and burst into tears as she was worried about me so I decided enough was enough and went back to the doc again and actually asked to be put on hrt the doc didn't want me to have it but I broke down and said I can't go on anymore so she eventually backed down and I am now on elleste duet daily by tablet it's only been a few days but I'm really hoping that this finally helps me I really hope so as need my old self back and so do my kids . I'm 48 years old .

[Hola Lolly]

Hello poor girl

I can't help wonder why we have to put up with months/years of depression and not feeling ourselves.  Like you, I had to demand HRT from my GP, despite being told my symptoms had nothing to do with menopause.  The quality of our lives is so low sometimes that the sooner we find the right preparation of HRT, the better for all concerned, especially our families. 
Should there be a campaign to educate ourselves and our GP's of the potential havoc that menopause can wreak?