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[Amy Dover]

Hi! My name is Amy and I'm 52 years old. I has my last cycle about 6 years ago. I've always been a worrier, but in the last year it had become full blown anxiety with depression mixed in. I have been to a number of doctor, been on all kinds of antidepressants. Anxiety is ruling my life. Racing thoughts...negative thoughts and I try everything to shake them. Every day is dictated by anxiety right now. The normal me is outgoing, love to socialize with friends, like to be on the go. Now I'm the opposite. Scared of everything. Feel like I'm living life outside looking in. Feeling like I'm about to die, don't like to be alone.

I went to a different Doc the other day who prescribed Progesterone and Armour Thyroid. The Armour spiked my anxiety so he has discontinued that. Through thermography and blood tests he has determined that I have no estrogen, progesterone and very little testosterone. He feels this is the reason for all my anxiety/depression symptoms.

I am very sensitive to meds apparently, I have had trouble with a number of antideppresents. I feel wound up, have racing thoughts, dizzy and just overall lousy most of the time. My job, relationships, well everything has suffered. I want myself back! I'm hoping that in this forum I can find some women that can identify with my story and offer up some hope and even suggestions. I'm feeling pretty frustrated and hopeless! I want off this hamster wheel!

A

[CLKD]

   HORMONES!

Have you had a recent thyroid function test?

Browse the menus, left of screen.  Make notes.  Keep a food/mood diary.

You may not be sensitive to meds at all, but because your feelings are hormonally based rather than 'depressive', you will have not gained benefit from those ADs prescribed.  Some can cause the opposite too, initially making the patient agitated ……..

Are you in the UK?

[Amy Dover]

Thanks for the response! I am in the U.S.

He told me my thyroid is low. I had had it tested previously and it was at the low end of normal. He felt like the Armour Thyroid med was responsible for increased anxiety since it is somehow linked with estrogen and I have none. He knew that so I'm not sure why he started the thyroid med at this point. I guess that's a question for my next visit. This doc has put me on Paleo diet plus no dairy. He said I have inflammation that sugar and yeast are feeding. He does very thorough testing and to be honest a lot of it was way over my head.

I'm really curious about the Progesterone part. I have been on 200mg for a little over a week. I guess the testosterone will come next. It makes since that hormones have caused this mess. But is that my best answer? Should or do I need to be taking ad also. This is ruling my thoughts and life.

Sorry to whine. I used to be a tough girl.

[Dancinggirl]

Hi and welcome amy Dover
Increased anxiety is a typical symptom of the menopause.
Why progesterone when you are low in oestrogen? You need oestrogen together with some progesterone.  I believe a Progesterone only treatment might cause the uterus lining to become too thin and progesterone won't help mood. It's oestrogen alongside some progesterone that you need more than anything.  If you had your meno 6 years ago this is a premature menopause and should have been treated with HRT. 
Thyroid function is important and this often plays up around the time of the meno so appropriate treatment for this is also very important.
Testosterone can be beneficial but normal HRT would probably be the best option for you - HRT it may well improve your mood generally.
Also, because you have had an early menopause your should have a bone scan as oestrogen deficiency often leads to early osteoporosis.  Leaving out dairy is a worry as you desperately need calcium - make sure you drink calcium enriched soya milk and other sources of calcium, vitamin D and Magnesium.  I'd definitely ask to try a combined HRT  - trans dermal if possible or Femoston if you prefer pills - before taking ADs.
BTW are you UK based?  Your doctor doesn't sound like a traditional GP?
Do read up all the info to the left of this screen to get fully clued up and get back to us with questions.  Good luck  DG x

[Hurdity]

Hi AmyDover

 

We have several members from US!

I must agree with Dancinggirl your doc doesn't sound like a regular gynae that you would normally consult.

Testosterone should not be given without oestrogen.  If your thyroid is low enough to cause symtpoms you are likely to be feeling sluggish, putting on weight and feeling cold amongst other things.

Personally I would go to a standard gynae but one that is sympathetic to HRT, but I can see the benefits also of consulting an endocrinologist which I presume you have done, provided they prescribe appropriately!

Hurdity x

[CLKD]

Dieting probably isn't the way to go if the body is already under stress.  Have a browse, menus, left of screen.  Make notes 

You are told you have 'inflammation which sugar and yeast are feeding'  - does he happen to sell supplements etc. that 'cure' this? Sorry, the cynic in me  .  Inflammation where exactly?  joints will swell and be painful, certain blood tests can show 'inflammation' if the results are higher than normal limits.  X-ray will also show joint inflammation.

Here in the UK yeast is often present and causes thrush which sugar will thrive upon: in the mouth, vagina; thrush lives in the bowel so can be passed forwards with in-correct wiping therefore causing lots of on-going problems.  Have you looked at any of the UK-based web-sites on Thrush, Caneston duo is sometimes recommended by pharmacies here to treat it.  every day's a learning curve  . 

How's the weather in your part of the US?  Here we are currently sweltering, un-usually ……….

[Amy Dover]

Thank you so much ladies! One of the reasons I went to this doc is because he is well thought of and thinks outside the box so to speak. I saw him for the first time about 10 days ago. I was blown away by all the testing results and quite frankly...wondered if the results for the "inflammation" issue and diet was really a big deal. And yes he does sell supplements. He also doesn't take insurance. So my time with him is going to be limited. I have a follow up visit with him on August 8th. He is the only doc that has looked at my hormones as an issue as it pertains to anxiety.
I started crying when he told me what the blood tests showed. I guess because it was validation. I've got a lot of reading to do! After being without my cycle for 6 years is this something I should be doing? He says yes of course...everyone has to have some hormones to function properly..especially brain wise.

I had written in my original post...then failed to post...that I had DCIS followed by 2 lumpectomies and radiation that ended in March. He says the DCIS should not have been dealt with in this manner and it was an abnormal cell that could have been watched. I was told after DCIS I would never be able to take hormones even if I needed them. Only ad's would help. Dr. M says it's a quality of life issue and my problem is obvious...the need for hormones. I guess he is addressing those one at a time? My DCIS was estrogen receptive. Which I still don't understand how that is when I am producing no estrogen. So my gyn is not going to prescribe.

I am watching my diet...but not doing exactly what he said on that. My stomach was feeling fine. I had an ulcer in the midst of the rest and had been treating that.

I have tons to learn and really am quite confused as to what to do...this stuff has gone on long enough.

It means the world to me to get such informative kind responses.

I will take your advise and read and read. This has taken over my life anyway.

A

[Amy Dover]

I also should have said...my councillor is the one that referred me to this doc. She has total faith in him and has been going to him many years. I am also taking alprazolam as needed...which has jumped to .25mg 3 times a day since off my ad. Prior to that on an as need basis. Psych said we can keep trying to find the right ad it just takes time. We opted to break from that since I have tried many ad's and dosages for the last year and haven't found the right fit... Especially for the racing thoughts that I can't seem to control. I'm to see him next week also.

[CLKD]

I would be concerned if any Consultant told me that another condition should be treated differently.  In 1995 I underwent lumpectomy followed by radiation.  Here in the UK we visit a General Practitioner for free in a Surgery to discuss symptoms and if necessary, are referred to the appropriate Consultant either privately or under the NHS system. 

That way any mis-understandings, wrong diagnosis and home treatments are usually avoided.  There are of course many who can buy over the counter medications or see private 'specialists' who also sell stuff.  One really needs to be secure in the knowledge that suggestions rather than 'you must take' is the choice.

'an abnormal cell'  - I palpated a lump above the nipple which clinically was non-sinster, however, at histology one of the slices showed abnormal changes, close to the margins …….. so my Consultant had me back for further surgery: so that was 2 operations within 6 days: followed by pre-cautionary radiation, daily for 4 weeks.  Then I had annual mammograms 'in case'.

1 cell can soon develop into several and if these are oestrogen dominant ………. we all require hormones and even the lowest of the low may still be producing enough to trigger cancer.  Also, blood tests are reliably unreliable, in fact my Gynae won't do them.  He insists on diagnosis by a lady's symptoms!

Racing thoughts - have you had obsessive tendencies over the years or is this triggered by anxiety?  My brain soon goes 'what if' when the physical issues start, which can bring me to a quivering heap within seconds 

[Amy Dover]

Thanks for the post CLKD. As I think through everything I have been told and the information I have researched as well, is giving me cause. Some of the research on dcIs went along with his thinking. My dcIs was found by mammogram. When I told Dr. M of this he went into great detail as to why...which is way over my head. I went through 6 weeks of radiation. Which he also felt that my risk of cancer in the future was increased by having those treatments. I also have probably had about 10 mammograms over the last 8 months. After undergoing the radiology I was sent to a medical oncologist. He wanted me to begin  tamoxifen and take it for the next 5 years. I stated I felt that I needed to get my anxiety problem rectified and was not sure about tamoxifen anyway since it blocks estrogen...and tests had already shown I don't have any. The oncologist agreed with waiting and said frankly "I'm not going to make you take it, studies have not shown a strong reason to take or not."

It's hard to believe that up until this time last year I was a strong, independent woman....nervous yes, a little anxious yes, but living life and dealing with whatever came my way. I would take 1/2 of. .25 alprazolam as needed. Never even went to the doc except for the occasional sinus problem. When I began this journey I started with a panic attack. (Just like my mom did at the same age.) The shuffling me around from doc to doc and test after test did reveal the dcis. I am thankful for that! I could go on and on about the things docs have told me. My surgeon even said dcis was precancerous . Stage 0 they called it. The radiology oncologist said it is cancer I don't care what your surgeon said. Now I don't have a clue who to trust. That is one of the reasons I looked for a forum like this. Just trying to which direction to go...as I have stated . I feel worse now then I did while I was undergoing radiation!

I guess continuing to look for the right ad is what is called for? Rather than mess with the hormones...which I have non of. This is all consuming, can't say I haven't tried to get to the bottom of things...lol

When I say obsessive thoughts...that's new to me. Just can't get the train to stop, anxiety based. Was always a little bit of a worrier but this began last October when I was being switched up on meds and docs. That's when fear started,ear ringing and obsessive racing thoughts....mainly about how can I get better. That's on my mind just about all day every day. Trying to distract myself stay busy, see a councillor but nothing breaks those thoughts for long. Feel like a hopeless case really. Don't mean to have a pity party. Just the way I feel.

[CLKD]

You join in our Pity Party any time you like Girl!  That's what we are here for.

Firstly: Your Oncologist is dealing with caners every day.  That's his job.  I would make an appt. to see him again and take with you a list of questions.  I was never told that radiation would increase any cancer risk, the whole point for me: in 1995:  was to zap any wayward cells dead.  Job done!  For the amount of seconds I was under the lazer was minimal.  I regularly saw the Surgeon and the Oncologist who worked closlely together on my Case.  We talked together.  About the whys and wherefores. One of the things the Surgeon told DH and me when the histology results came back was "some ladies want mastectomy but I don't think this is necessary in your case" .  I never thought about it again, I trusted him completely.

I've had more mammos than I can re-call.  Still here <wave>.  Years ago, yep, radiation did cause burning and potential life shortening but you and I have had direct treatment - the only burning I had was like sun burn in the area of the treatment and I was given a steroid cream to use sparingly.  If someone needs more in-depth - literally - radiation then the burning will be more.  But that isn't us ?

You have hormones.  Otherwise you wouldn't still be standing  ....... thyroid for 1, I bet you have some semblance of female left too. 

Anxiety + stress = racing thoughts.  DH used to ask me what was going through my brain but it was so fast I couldn't remember.    ...... I was so focussed on how I felt it left nothing else ........ no energy, no proper thought patterns. 

I was unable to take Tamoxifen as it made me ill.  I had cold sweats and it made me very very nausous.  Why are you seeing a 'medical' doctor rather than the surgeon who did your operation? or the Oncologist who is the 'usual' person to prescribe Tamoxifen.  Medical Doctors in the UK treat hearts, lungs, blood pressure problems 

Are you being directed by your Insurance Company?

[Amy Dover]

Thanks for letting me vent. I will see my surgeon in another month. The medical oncologist and I had discussed tamoxifen. I didn't want to take it until I felt well upstairs, hehe. He basically told me to come back when I decided. I had a radiology oncologist as we'll and went for my follow up and we said we hoped we never saw each other again. Are you saying that I should see the oncologist about all other health related things. They didn't want to be involved in prescribing anything when I mentioned it before. He said I needed an ad and sent me on my way.

I went to the MD because of my ongoing anxiety problems. Trying to get to the bottom of that since everyone else...docs, psychs,gp have prescribed meds that didn't work for me. Just trying to get to the bottom of it. My OB had already told me estradiol registered negative?

I am going to have to have some kind of help with anxiety right now. It's t ongoing throughout the day...every day. Something is out of whack and I need some help. This is the first time in 8 months I haven't been on some kind of ad.

Couple of questions...first...hormones a bad idea? Doc M. Thinks once those are balanced that will take care of the rest.Has there been an ad that has worked better than others for more people?
Tell me what you really think.

I have also been weighing the idea of going to a doc that a friend of mine takes her son to...her son has Lyme disease. The doc is very thorough and thoughtful. I've just been to so many not sure. My psych will gladly put me on another ad,

Thanks for your time.
I need a road map!

A

[CLKD]

You seem to be getting mixed messages from the various medics that you have talked with.  Here the Oncologist would deal with ALL the chemotherapy, any radiation required and would suggest Tamoxifen etc., that would then be prescribed the family doctor rather than keep returning to the Hospital.

What kinds of problems did the ADs give?  My biggest side-effect was intense nausea  but once I found one that I could tolerate, my brain got the support required.  Some ADs have been found to ease hot flushes/flashes too.  It really is Trial and Error 


I also take a beta-blocka for anxiety, helps stop the awful early morning surges as well as having to hand an 'emergency' pill similar to Valium.  Relaxation therapy has helped in the past, we also have access to Bach Flower Remedys and I use 'rescue remedy' mouth spray to help anxiety, used before I get anxious.

Hormones are essential for well being.  Some can help stave off osteoporosis - there is a good UK-based site if you want to browse round and I was going to suggest also, Breakthrough or Back-up, can't remember the name  again UK-based which supports those having had cancer.  The amounts of oestrogen are minimal and we have to weigh up quality of Life against being grounded by symptoms.

[Amy Dover]

I have gotten a lot of mixed messages. That has shaken my confidence in them(docs)as well as myself. I may not have done a good job of describing my journey thus far. I am through seeing the oncologist unless I have future issues....which I don't anticipate, I have chosen not to take tamoxifen as of now unless someone can explain a really good reason for me to. As far as MD's are concerned, I went to the new doc to get a fresh opinion on my anxiety and treatment of it. Rather than continuing to go strictly to the pysch.

My concern is of course taking hormones and the risks involved. Someone suggested that my body was used to no or low hormones since I haven't had my period in 6 years? So maybe I shouldn't start them? There is the quality of life issue...if that's what my body needs. The new doc is the one that did more thorough testing than anyone else. Ad's at this point may be necessary til hormones get straightened out? How long will that take? To get them to the level that is helpful? I'm not sure most docs around here will be willing to prescribe them to me given my history.

I actually bought some rescue remedy. Haven't used it yet. What's really strange...in the last 10 days my anxiety has been a bit worse. Which is about when I started Progesterone at night and the thyroid that we have now stopped. What's really strange is morning is the worst and has been.? I feel my best from 5 p.m. on. Why do you think that is?

If you don't mind me asking....how long did it take you to get straightened out ? I guess I probably made my situation more difficult by trying to go without ad's. Just frustrated having tried so many different ones. My biggest complaint was feeling so out in space a good 18 hrs after taking just 20mg amitryptaline for instance. Zoloft gave me awful acid reflux..thought I was having a heart attack...ear ringing started with that one. But I did have an ulcer....so the ssri's that we tried at first might work now since that has been dealt with. Maybe I'm not patient enough.

I would love to hear your story....when you started what and how long it took you to start feeling like yourself. Who knew this would be such hard work!!! My mom went to doc, when she was my age, was put on hormones and ad's and felt tons better in about 3 weeks. Never went to a psych or counseling. She is still on the same meds today, a different dose , and she will soon be 80.


Thanks for talking with me. It really helps not feeling alone,


A

[CLKD]

<wave> - that's why Forums can be so helpful! and I agree, Life can be Hard Work 

It's good that your breast condition has been dealt with.  Mine too!  Unless I have any concerns I don't think about what I went through, though I'm really the kind of person that will 'dwell'  .

Straightened out - took, intermittently,  5+ years because I was prescribed ADs, felt better, stopped them, dipped ........... and found that once I had stopped one type it wouldn't kick in again.  I also had talking therapy which allowed me to vent, vent, vent 

You may find that Progesterone is what is causing the anxiety, from reading on here some ladies do react to it.  My anxiety has always been bad in the mornings, as I work through any daily commitments it eases and by evening I'm a 'different' person; I have learned not to say 'yes' to doing anything for anyone until the morning arrives! otherwise anxiety is worse and I have to let people down.

Do a search for the threads that member 'Hurdity' has issued, if you put her name in the Members area ....... then you can see what she has been discussing.  She is very good at explaining how hormones work etc.. .......... have you read the menus, left of screen?